Bang, bang, you're Deaf!

Minuteman · Nov 12, 2012

Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF): Protect your hearing and never intentionally shoot without hearing protection unless your life depends on it.

I never thought I would have to be an advocate for something so simple, but since so many folks are discussing this topic, I thought this safety issue was worth its own thread.

Listen up!

- Hearing damage is permanent. You don't get it back, ever. So one 'mistake' could cost you for the rest of your life.

- Don't attend training events where participants are allowed (or worse encouraged) to shoot a few rounds without hearing protection.

- There are many types of inexpensive hearing protection devices available today that even a hunter can protect their hearing; getting the rapport below the 'permanent damage' level of 120 decibels even once. Strongly recommended to wear 'double hearing protection' for multiple exposure above 104db.

Why do I care so much about your hearing?

- I have some hearing damage, confirmed by multiple audiometer (hearing) tests over my career and upon my retirement. You won't even know what you are missing; it diminishes your quality of life and that of your family.

- My father lost most all his hearing in one ear and significantly damaged his hearing in the other when one of his 'stupid friend' fired a gun from inside a vehicle he was driving.

- I've participated in and conducted hundreds of hours of firearms training; hearing protection was always mandatory. When I attended and successfully completed the US Secret Service Firearms Instructor Training Course; they emphasized two things that I previously did not always do.

(1) always wash your hands thoroughly after handling lead ammunition and
(2) always wear DOUBLE hearing protection (that is ear plugs & ear muffs) while training.

- The evidence is overwhelming, I'll post a few links/images for those that may need a little more convincing.

http://www.healthyhearing.com/content/articles/Hearing-loss/Causes/7904-Shooting-sports-and-hearing

http://www.betterhearing.org/hearing_loss_prevention/

http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFullText/RTO/MP/RTO-MP-HFM-123///MP-HFM-123-19.pdf

Minuteman · Nov 12, 2012

This is what we are up against.

Minuteman · Nov 12, 2012

Why you need good hearing:

Hear a rifle bolt close 1000 meters away.

Stay safe, keep your hearing.

Name Taken · Nov 12, 2012

Again...it's sad this is even a issue.

I always double up on hearing protection and always wash hands as soon as done with cold water and soap.

The vast majority of people shooting to save their rear ends report not even hearing the shot(s) so if they arent hearing it how is the "boom" causing them any issues with their concentration. In fight or flight we know the body starts to alter your blood flow and oxygen to accomplish what you want to do.

Why someone would want to risk life long damage to their hearing when for less then 100 bucks you can get HIGH quality protection is beyond me.

I've talked to life long hunters who have severe hearing damage. I'm guessing it's not much fun for them to have people yell at them all the time.

Minuteman · Nov 12, 2012

Name Taken said:
Again...it's sad this is even a issue. ...

I hear you.

The #1 disability of military returning from deployments is auditory disability.

That includes tinnitus (ringing in the ears) and hearing loss.

Minuteman · Nov 12, 2012

Looks like hearing loss may not be permanent after all; if this study proves correct. I think I'd rather drop $100 on some really good hearing protection than go through the procedures, if it ever proves possible.

New strategy to prevent hearing loss discovered
Washington, Sat, 07 Jul 2012

Washington, July 7 (ANI): The protein AMPK, which protects cells during a lack of energy, plays a role in protecting sensory cells in the inner ear from permanent damage and helps maintain hearing after extreme noise exposure, a new study has found.
According to researchers from Germany and Canada, AMPK also activates a channel protein in the cell membrane that allows potassium to leave the cell and thereby prevents permanent to the ears.
This information could lead to new strategies and therapies to prevent and treat trauma resulting from extreme noise, especially in people with AMPK gene variants that may make them more vulnerable to hearing loss.
"Future research on the basis of the present study may lead to the development of novel strategies preventing noise-induced hearing loss or accelerating recovery from acoustic trauma," Florian Lang, a researcher involved in the work from the Department of Physiology at the University of T?bingen, in Tubingen, Germany, said.
To make this discovery, Lang and colleagues compared two groups of mice. The first group was normal and the second lacked the AMPK protein.
Hearing of the mice was tested by measuring sound-induced brain activity. All mice were exposed to well-defined noise causing an acoustic trauma and leading to hearing impairment.
Prior to noise exposure, the hearing ability was similar in normal mice and mice lacking AMPK. After exposure, the hearing of the normal mice mostly recovered after two weeks, but the recovery of hearing in AMPK-deficient mice remained significantly impaired. The study has been published in the FASEB Journal. (ANI)

eruby · Nov 12, 2012

Name Taken said:
Again...it's sad this is even a issue.

I always double up on hearing protection and always wash hands as soon as done with cold water and soap.

The vast majority of people shooting to save their rear ends report not even hearing the shot(s) so if they arent hearing it how is the "boom" causing them any issues with their concentration. In fight or flight we know the body starts to alter your blood flow and oxygen to accomplish what you want to do.

Why someone would want to risk life long damage to their hearing when for less then 100 bucks you can get HIGH quality protection is beyond me.

I've talked to life long hunters who have severe hearing damage. I'm guessing it's not much fun for them to have people yell at them all the time.

Why cold water? I thought hot was best (I did not click any links in the OP).

Minuteman · Nov 12, 2012

Hunters and hearing protection:

http://earplugstore.typepad.com/got_ears_get_informed/2011/09/index.html

Excerpt:
Hearing damage depends on two factors: volume (how many dB’s of noise you’re hearing), and time (how long you’re exposed to the sound). So if a noise is loud enough -- 115 dB or louder, to be specific -- then hearing damage can occur instantaneously. But you can generally get away with exposure to slightly less dangerous levels of noise for short periods of time without suffering damage. In general, the rule is this: the longer you are exposed to any noise, the greater the chance your hearing will be damaged. And the louder the noise, the less time it takes to do serious damage to your ears.

http://www.earplugstore.com/shootandhun.html

xd40c · Nov 12, 2012

I had a fairly severe hearing loss many years ago (1998) while walking next to an industrial machine. It physically hurt at the time. My ears have NEVER stopped ringing. I still wear plugs and muffs while shooting.

Take it from me, protect your hearing! Huh? Whatdidyousay? Turn the GD TV up!

QuebecoisWolf · Nov 12, 2012

What is all this about? Can't hear y'all.

Seriously though, military ear plugs SUCK. They especially suck of your ear canals aren't quite the same size. My dad is halfway to deaf since he was the comms officer for an artillery unit.

Minuteman · Nov 12, 2012

Hearing loss in the military is epidemic.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2352372...-loss-silent-epidemic-us-troops/#.UKFcMhx7Hvw

080307-hearing-loss-hmed-12p.grid-6x2.jpg

Excerpt:
In any case, hearing protection has its limits. While damage can occur at 80 to 85 decibels — the noise level of a moving tank — the best protection cuts that by only 20 to 25 decibels. That is not enough to protect the ears against an explosion or a firefight, which can range upwards of 183 decibels, said Dr. Ben Balough, a Navy captain and chairman of otolaryngology at the Balboa Navy Medical Center in San Diego.

Excerpt:
The Navy and Marines have begun buying and distributing state-of-the-art earplugs, known as QuietPro, that contain digital processors that block out damaging sound waves from gunshots and explosions and still allow users to hear everyday noises. They cost about $600 a pair.
The Army also has equipped every soldier being sent to Iraq and Afghanistan with newly developed one-sided earplugs that cost about $8.50, and it has begun testing QuietPro with some troops.

QuietPro QP400 by Honeywell: http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...Launches-QUIETPRO-QP400-–-Generation-Tactical

For the airsoft crowd, enjoy

:

tsmith1499 · Nov 12, 2012

eruby said:
Why cold water? I thought hot was best (I did not click any links in the OP).

Closes the pores of the skin. Same deal if you contact poisen ivy. Cold water and soap, washes it right off.

QuebecoisWolf · Nov 12, 2012

One of the scare tactics used in my unit to get Joes to wear their (crappy) earpro was to tell them that the VA wouldn't give disability for hearing loss.

Minuteman · Nov 12, 2012

How loud is a gunshot?

A single gunshot is typically over 150db, that's severe.

http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

Excerpt:
Table 1. SHOTGUN NOISE DATA (DECIBEL AVERAGES)
.410 Bore 28" barrel 150dB
12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB

Dr. Krammer continues to say that shotgun noise averaged slightly more that 150dB. This is approximately 14dB beyond the threshold of pain, and more than sufficient to cause sudden hearing loss with complications.

Table 2. CENTERFIRE RIFLE DATA
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18 _" barrel 155.5dB
.308 in 24" barrel 156.2dB
.30-06 in 24" barrel 158.5dB
.30-06 in 18 _" barrel 163.2dB

Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA
.25 ACP 155.0 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB

Darkemp · Nov 12, 2012

My dad has a large degree of hearing loss from his tour in Vietnam. I remember accidentally taking one shot with my AR several years back without my ears on, took about 6 hours for the ringing to stop.

Minuteman · Nov 12, 2012

Name Taken · Nov 12, 2012

eruby said:
Why cold water? I thought hot was best (I did not click any links in the OP).

Warm to hot water will open up the pours in your skin allowing whatever lead might be on your hands into your body....granted it's a small amount.

Cold water will rinse away the lead/residue without causing the pours on your skin to open.

eruby · Nov 13, 2012

tsmith1499 said:
Closes the pores of the skin. Same deal if you contact poisen ivy. Cold water and soap, washes it right off.

Name Taken said:
Warm to hot water will open up the pours in your skin allowing whatever lead might be on your hands into your body....granted it's a small amount.

Cold water will rinse away the lead/residue without causing the pours on your skin to open.

Thank you gentlemen, always learn something new and usefil on MDS. :thumbsup:

Chris · Nov 13, 2012

I think this thread (as important as it is) is a result of an earlier thread which an instructor had consenting students take off their hearing protection to experience live fire. We all know that exposure to loud sounds be it on the range or the workplace is not good. With that said I can see where a few shots fired without hearing protection would allow the student to hear "naked" gun fire. How many out there have heard real gun fire? Chris

trickg · Nov 13, 2012

When I was a kid, my Dad didn't use hearing protection, and likely never did. I thought it was more manly to shoot without it, although to be fair, that was only a few times when I was still younger. By the time I was in middle school and in Junior Rifle Club, I was using hearing protection for shooting.

Having said that, I have always lived a loud life. As a musician I know I have done some damage to my hearing, but in my endeavors as a drummer, I built an in-ears rig to protect my ears from the noise that drumming presents. My hope at this point is to prevent it from getting any worse too quickly.

Bang, bang, you're Deaf!

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