Atlantic Tactical : Refuse to Include Magazine

FrankOceanXray · Oct 10, 2012

PS90. 50 round mag. Unregulated. If I were to pick it up in PA, she is telling me I would not be able to acquire the 50 round mag "per ATF" and only walk away with the rifle AND a 10 round.

Not how I read any of the law... that is not true. :mad54:

FrankOceanXray · Oct 10, 2012

Gretchen Cohick gcohick@atlantictactical.com

FOX,

You would be able to buy the PS90 but since you are a resident of the state of MD you would not be able to have the 50 rnd mags that come with the weapon. We would have to trade them out for some 10 rnd mags. If you have any other questions or concerns please contact customer service at customerservice@atlantictactical.com or at 1-800-781-2677.

Thanks and have a good day.

Gretchen L. Cohick

Atlantic Tactical

CSR

fax # 717-774-4463
*********************************

Because we require your id to ship to you and LE weapon and seeing that you are a resident of Maryland when you pay for the weapon… The ATF will not let us sell to you anything over a 10 rnd mag. This is a restriction that we have to follow due to the ATF. If we do not follow these rules, we will be fined and possibly have our FFL license taken from us. If we could, we would sell you the 50 rnd mag but because we must follow the rules the ATF has given us we will not be able to sell you this weapon with a 50 rnd mag. We would be able to sell you this weapon with a 10 rnd mag.

**********************

That is fine you can come pick the weapon up but we would not be able to sell to you the 50 rnd mag that comes with the weapon since you are a resident in the state of MD.

HardHatMan · Oct 10, 2012

They are wrong. Show them the law.

FrankOceanXray · Oct 10, 2012

I asked her to cite which law per ATF and referred her to the MD COMAR. We will see. I would like to buy the gun but here is an opportunity to teach.

Half-cocked · Oct 10, 2012

Maryland's magazine limit is 20 rounds, anyway. And the law only restricts sales and transfers within Maryland. That said, every store I've ever seen that ships to Maryland won't ship >20 round magazines to Maryland residents.

Since you'd be picking up this gun out-of-state, the gun sale must be compliant with both state's laws. She may be quite right, for that reason.

FrankOceanXray · Oct 10, 2012

The sale and acquisition is occurring in PA.

FrankOceanXray · Oct 10, 2012

We understand that as a law enforcement officer in the state of Maryland you understand the laws for the state of Maryland. This is something that the ATF has let us know that we cannot do. This has not been the first time a Law enforcement officer in the state of Maryland has requested the 50 rnd mag and as before in the past. The president of our company has let us all know, we must follow ATF's rules and because you are a resident of Maryland we cannot sell you anything over a 10 rnd mag when ordering a weapon from us.

You can go into any state and no one in retail is required to ask for your id and you can walk out with a "high capacity mag" but because when you ordering the weapon from us and we have a copy of were you live and were the weapon plus mags will be shipping to, we can no longer sell you this high Capacity mag that comes with the weapon. When you come to our retail store to buy the weapon we have to call in the background check to the state police and keep on file what state you live in. If the ATF comes to do an audit on us we will be fined and will lose our license. We also cannot ship this weapon into the state of Maryland with a High Capacity mag. Please understand we are just following the rules and regulations that were given to us per the ATF.

swinokur · Oct 10, 2012

They must comply with the laws in both states IIRC.

I do agree if it's purchased OOS then it'd be legal. MD law says buy,sele, transfer, or manufacture.

What you're doing is not any of those IMO. IANAL.

FrankOceanXray · Oct 10, 2012

So they transfer the gun with the 10 round mag. Then sell me the 50round mag for a reduced price seeing I already paid for it. Could they do that? How would it be any different?

swinokur · Oct 10, 2012

That would be their choice IMO. But as I read MD statute, they can legally sell you the 50 round mag as long as it's not in MD.

But IANAL or an FFL.

Name Taken · Oct 10, 2012

Are they willing to ship the gun/50 rounder to a PA FFL?

If so find a PA FFL have them ship everything to them then pick up from PA FFL...all legal right?

If they refuse then that's up to them...free market society...take business elsewhere...psssttt...I know it's hard to find these.

FrankOceanXray · Oct 10, 2012

I will most likely be taking it elsewhere NameTaken.... they don't have the rifle in stock either.

Just have a chance to uncover some truth to these folks. I am not going to pass it up. Who knows, maybe I am wrong here. I read the law as they are wrong.

mikec · Oct 10, 2012

About four or five years ago ATF started giving FFL's in some states heat about selling certain firearms to US service people. The issue was that service people from CA, NY and other restrictive states were buying normal firearms in states like VA or FL and bringing them back home.

ATF started pushing the "must comply with the laws in both states" mantra. What the OP is dealing with is the fallout from this.

At least one MDS member has posted about being told they could not buy 30 round AR mags at a VA FFL after the FFL found out the buyer was from MD.

FrankOceanXray · Oct 10, 2012

I asked for what law the president of the company was citing. We will see if there is a response.

xd40c · Oct 10, 2012

My (limited) understanding of the law is that they are correct. Must abide by both states (selling state and home state). Nothing would prevent you though from going to the next gun shop and purchasing you hi caps there. I would guess that very few of the AR owners here have not made the trip north or south to pick up 30 rounders.

swinokur · Oct 10, 2012

I have mine sent to a buddy in VA. I drive over and pick them up.

FrankOceanXray · Oct 10, 2012

I have high capacity magazines. I can get them. But she will refuse to sell them to me. And even worse, sell the gun to me full price, then knock out a 50 round mag for a 10 round mag. Knock off the price without the mag. I will get my own.

Thing is, there is no proof at this time AT is abiding the law. Grey area. Just what the lawmakers like..

mikec · Oct 10, 2012

FrankOceanXray said:
I have high capacity magazines. I can get them. But she will refuse to sell them to me. And even worse, sell the gun to me full price, then knock out a 50 round mag for a 10 round mag. Knock off the price without the mag. I will get my own.

Thing is, there is no proof at this time AT is abiding the law. Grey area. Just what the lawmakers like..

Actually, ATF interpretations of the law. The shop or their lawyer is protecting their backside from the nasty Feds.

FrankOceanXray · Oct 10, 2012

Which law?

mikec · Oct 10, 2012

FrankOceanXray said:
Which law?

Gun Control Act of 1968 and the 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act. The section that says a FFL has to comply with the laws in both their state and the laws of the buyers state.

As you quoted from them:

You can go into any state and no one in retail is required to ask for your id and you can walk out with a "high capacity mag" but because when you ordering the weapon from us and we have a copy of were you live and were the weapon plus mags will be shipping to, we can no longer sell you this high Capacity mag that comes with the weapon. When you come to our retail store to buy the weapon we have to call in the background check to the state police and keep on file what state you live in. If the ATF comes to do an audit on us we will be fined and will lose our license. We also cannot ship this weapon into the state of Maryland with a High Capacity mag. Please understand we are just following the rules and regulations that were given to us per the ATF.

We can blame some stupid dealers near several military bases in VA and FL for not following the law 100% while dealing with some soldiers from CA and other states. ATF is just making sure all shops follow the rules.

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