Would this be classified as Hbar?

HailVon · Jul 21, 2018

Im thinking about buying this upper from PSA, but I just want to know whether it's an Hbar or not? https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-dissipator-without-bcg-or-ch-5165448220.html

rseymorejr · Jul 21, 2018

They don't mention "HBAR" or "Heavy Barrel anywhere, so I'd say no

Boss94 · Jul 21, 2018

No it no where says it is. Then it says M4 extension. So no .

HailVon · Jul 21, 2018

Thanks for letting me know guys

RetiredArmyGuy · Jul 21, 2018

Just as a generalization most AR crush washers are .75” in diameter for future reference.

Magnumite · Jul 21, 2018

RetiredArmyGuy said:
Just as a generalization most AR crush washers are .75” in diameter for future reference.

Just to clarify that would be O.D.

Boom Boom · Jul 21, 2018

It's only HBAR if the *manufacturer* says it is. Barrel diameter/profile is irrelevant.

Hit and Run · Jul 21, 2018

HailVon said:
Im thinking about buying this upper from PSA, but I just want to know whether it's an Hbar or not? https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-dissipator-without-bcg-or-ch-5165448220.html

They sell HBAR uppers occasionally and will call them out as such when they do.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Hawkeye · Jul 24, 2018

Boss94 said:
No it no where says it is. Then it says M4 extension. So no .

An M4 extension has nothing to do with the barrel profile. It's discussing the fact that it has M4 feed ramps.

RetiredArmyGuy said:
Just as a generalization most AR crush washers are .75” in diameter for future reference.

Which doesn't matter at all, because there is no legal physical definition of what is and isn't a "heavy barrel" as far as MD law goes.

The only thing that matters is:

Boom Boom said:
It's only HBAR if the *manufacturer* says it is. Barrel diameter/profile is irrelevant.

Exactly. If the MFR says that is an "HBAR" or a "Heavy Barrel," or it is marked as such, then it is legal for sale here. Otherwise it's not. This is based on current guidance from MSP, and is subject to change, of course.

RetiredArmyGuy · Jul 24, 2018

Magnumite said:
Just to clarify that would be O.D.

Yes, correct O.D. Sorry I didn’t say that originally.

RetiredArmyGuy · Jul 24, 2018

Hawkeye said:
An M4 extension has nothing to do with the barrel profile. It's discussing the fact that it has M4 feed ramps.

Which doesn't matter at all, because there is no legal physical definition of what is and isn't a "heavy barrel" as far as MD law goes.

The only thing that matters is:

Exactly. If the MFR says that is an "HBAR" or a "Heavy Barrel," or it is marked as such, then it is legal for sale here. Otherwise it's not. This is based on current guidance from MSP, and is subject to change, of course.

I have returned to Maryland since the 2013 FSA. Thank you for the clarification as I thought I read a few posts in here regarding the legal definition of an HBAR having a barrel of .75”. I apparently misread them. After looking up the law I see now it doesn’t have a thickness in the definition. I am also baffled as to the advisory from MSP that says even if it is a heavy barrel or HBAR it can still be considered a “copy cat” if it meets the definition. I guess I can technically engrave HBAR using my drag engraver on a barrel if I decide to build an AR as long as it doesn’t have any of the evil features of a “copy cat”. What an idiotic law. Thanks again for squaring me away on the definition.

rseymorejr · Jul 24, 2018

RetiredArmyGuy said:
I have returned to Maryland since the 2013 FSA. Thank you for the clarification as I thought I read a few posts in here regarding the legal definition of an HBAR having a barrel of .75”. I apparently misread them. After looking up the law I see now it doesn’t have a thickness in the definition. I am also baffled as to the advisory from MSP that says even if it is a heavy barrel or HBAR it can still be considered a “copy cat” if it meets the definition. I guess I can technically engrave HBAR using my drag engraver on a barrel if I decide to build an AR as long as it doesn’t have any of the evil features of a “copy cat”. What an idiotic law. Thanks again for squaring me away on the definition.

Idiotic laws passed by idiots

Hawkeye · Jul 24, 2018

RetiredArmyGuy said:
I have returned to Maryland since the 2013 FSA. Thank you for the clarification as I thought I read a few posts in here regarding the legal definition of an HBAR having a barrel of .75”. I apparently misread them. After looking up the law I see now it doesn’t have a thickness in the definition. I am also baffled as to the advisory from MSP that says even if it is a heavy barrel or HBAR it can still be considered a “copy cat” if it meets the definition. I guess I can technically engrave HBAR using my drag engraver on a barrel if I decide to build an AR as long as it doesn’t have any of the evil features of a “copy cat”. What an idiotic law. Thanks again for squaring me away on the definition.

No problem - this is one of those things that gets discussed a TON on here, and there are lots of oft-repeated misconceptions about it. The 0.75" diameter thing is one of the most popular and repeated examples. (Which does actually make sense if you think of the gas block diameter being .75 on many barrels and if the rest of the barrel never gets thinner than that it must be "heavy," right?)

However this does leave us with some opportunity. Colt, for example, sells their SOCOM profile barrels as "heavy" even though they've got the M203 cuts and flats on them since they are heavier than the "traditional" M4 profile barrel, so Colt rifles that have the SOCOM barrels on them are legal here.

As far as the MSP advisory goes, I honestly think this is them throwing up their hands at the legislature and going, "You know what? Screw it. You guys want to pass a law and then leave it up to us to work out how to control the whole thing without giving us any additional funds to deal with it? Fine. We're passing the buck. If the manufacturer says it's heavy, then it's heavy."

The "an HBAR can still be a copycat assault weapon" thing does actually make sense, because they are two separate tests in two separate sections of the statute - i.e.:

A rifle is banned IF:

It is listed in the section of named rifles, OR
It fails the copycat test.

This is why we have a bunch of rifles that are banned (short Tavors, a SIG MCX with a folding stock and flash hider, etc) which aren't on the "named list."

RetiredArmyGuy · Jul 24, 2018

So by definition this would be okay? I just want to make sure I am on the right track here.

Muleskinner · Jul 24, 2018

RetiredArmyGuy said:
I have returned to Maryland since the 2013 FSA. Thank you for the clarification as I thought I read a few posts in here regarding the legal definition of an HBAR having a barrel of .75”. I apparently misread them. After looking up the law I see now it doesn’t have a thickness in the definition. I am also baffled as to the advisory from MSP that says even if it is a heavy barrel or HBAR it can still be considered a “copy cat” if it meets the definition. I guess I can technically engrave HBAR using my drag engraver on a barrel if I decide to build an AR as long as it doesn’t have any of the evil features of a “copy cat”. What an idiotic law. Thanks again for squaring me away on the definition.

because a retailer markets it as a heavy barrel but they sell barrels made by a manufacturer who doesn't sell it as a heavy barrel..The law says manufacturer, not retailer..I think PSA makes their own but I won't swear to it. To be safe make sure it comes from the manufacturer stamped HBAR or HEAVY BARREL. It's not a legal requirement, but on the very remote chance you are ever checked you're covered

RetiredArmyGuy · Jul 24, 2018

Hawkeye said:
No problem - this is one of those things that gets discussed a TON on here, and there are lots of oft-repeated misconceptions about it. The 0.75" diameter thing is one of the most popular and repeated examples. (Which does actually make sense if you think of the gas block diameter being .75 on many barrels and if the rest of the barrel never gets thinner than that it must be "heavy," right?)

However this does leave us with some opportunity. Colt, for example, sells their SOCOM profile barrels as "heavy" even though they've got the M203 cuts and flats on them since they are heavier than the "traditional" M4 profile barrel, so Colt rifles that have the SOCOM barrels on them are legal here.

As far as the MSP advisory goes, I honestly think this is them throwing up their hands at the legislature and going, "You know what? Screw it. You guys want to pass a law and then leave it up to us to work out how to control the whole thing without giving us any additional funds to deal with it? Fine. We're passing the buck. If the manufacturer says it's heavy, then it's heavy."

The "an HBAR can still be a copycat assault weapon" thing does actually make sense, because they are two separate tests in two separate sections of the statute - i.e.:

A rifle is banned IF:

It is listed in the section of named rifles, OR

It fails the copycat test.

This is why we have a bunch of rifles that are banned (short Tavors, a SIG MCX with a folding stock and flash hider, etc) which aren't on the "named list."

Thanks again! After reading a bunch more about it including the law and advisories I believe I understand it now. Not that I can agree with any of its stupidity but at least I have a much better understanding. I have some modifications to make prior to bringing any of my ARs to Maryland in the future. Luckily none of them will require much modification as all of them are HBARs and have compensators or thread caps. The big thing which isn’t an issue is to engrave HBAR on the barrels with my drag engraver since when I manufactured them I didn’t do that because there was no need to in Virginia.

ShafTed · Jul 24, 2018

RetiredArmyGuy said:
So by definition this would be okay? I just want to make sure I am on the right track here.

Says HBAR right on the page, so yes, it's legal. If it is not engraved as HBAR, print a hard copy of that page and keep it in case someone ever questions the barrel.

RetiredArmyGuy · Jul 24, 2018

Muleskinner said:
because a retailer markets it as a heavy barrel but they sell barrels made by a manufacturer who doesn't sell it as a heavy barrel..The law says manufacturer, not retailer..I think PSA makes their own but I won't swear to it. To be safe make sure it comes from the manufacturer stamped HBAR or HEAVY BARREL

PSA holds a manufacturing license but they don’t actually manufacture anything to my knowledge. That may change or has changed but I don’t think so. They normally have all their PSA lowers made by another manufacturer and have their variance marked on the lower. I would assume that is the same with their barrels. Now they may buy parts wholesale and assemble uppers and lowers and sell them.

Hit and Run · Jul 24, 2018

Muleskinner said:
because a retailer markets it as a heavy barrel but they sell barrels made by a manufacturer who doesn't sell it as a heavy barrel..The law says manufacturer, not retailer..I think PSA makes their own but I won't swear to it. To be safe make sure it comes from the manufacturer stamped HBAR or HEAVY BARREL

PSA makes and sells HBAR uppers but not in stock often. I get them as a dealer when I can.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

RetiredArmyGuy · Jul 24, 2018

ShafTed said:
Says HBAR right on the page, so yes, it's legal. If it is not engraved as HBAR, print a hard copy of that page and keep it in case someone ever questions the barrel.

It’s 1940s technology but it will work for marking HBAR on a barrel. I used to use it to mark calibers on barrels but that was another life. I’ll keep a copy of the webpage as well.

Would this be classified as Hbar?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Hold my beer. Watch this.

Ultimate Member

The Leatherstocking

Active Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

The Leatherstocking

Active Member

Attachments

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Attachments

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics