Go Back   Maryland Shooters > Topics of Interest > Reloading
Don't Have An Account? Register Here

Join MD Shooters

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 20th, 2020, 03:54 PM #1
Moorvogi's Avatar
Moorvogi Moorvogi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 665
Moorvogi Moorvogi is offline
Member
Moorvogi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 665
Large Rifle vs Large Rifle MAGNUM

I suppose the easy way to test this is to try it against a known load but I'm curious what others have found if they tried it.

I'm looking to reload my 300 win mag and i found I don't have enough magnum primers to do a load test. I have enough non-magnum to go around for a small village though HAHA.

What effects can I expect in using large rifle instead of large rifle magnum primers? I "assume" it's very similar but i've never tested it. I've seen some loads that list magnum primers in non "magnum" rifles though i never tried this combo.

I'm not going to hold anyone liable for actions blah blah blah. Nor should anyone else try it saying they saw it online.. etc etc.

I'm going to wait for magnum primers but what are the realistic potential outcomes? Lower FPS, pipe bomb... unicorns farting rainbows?
__________________
Your rifle will almost always shoot better than you! Master the 6 steps to taking a shot before you buy a different rifle to compensate for lack of practice/skill.
Moorvogi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2020, 04:19 PM #2
Park ranger Park ranger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 699
Park ranger Park ranger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 699
Hang fires, lower pressures and velocity, failure to ignite, would be more common. I like the coolest primer that will get the job done. Palma shooters will use small rifle primer brass to set off 46 grains of varget. But...in cool weather its iffy. But with a 300 win mag, that's lots of slow powder. I'd use magnum.
Park ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2020, 04:22 PM #3
squaregrouper's Avatar
squaregrouper squaregrouper is offline
Registered Grendelophile
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Pikesville, Peoples Republik Of Marylandistan
Posts: 9,490
Images: 1
squaregrouper squaregrouper is offline
Registered Grendelophile
squaregrouper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Pikesville, Peoples Republik Of Marylandistan
Posts: 9,490
Images: 1
I will let you know next Saturday.
I am loading a bunch of 6.5 Grendel and will be experimenting with a dozen small rifle primers vs the small rifle magnum primers across my chrono on Friday afternoon. Everything else will be identical for the experiment.
__________________
.
Nothing posted on this forum should be considered legal advice. If you are in need of legal advice, I advise you to seek your own counsel. Hell, I'm not even a lawyer, but this got your attention.
squaregrouper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2020, 04:27 PM #4
Moorvogi's Avatar
Moorvogi Moorvogi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 665
Moorvogi Moorvogi is offline
Member
Moorvogi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by squaregrouper View Post
I will let you know next Saturday.
I am loading a bunch of 6.5 Grendel and will be experimenting with a dozen small rifle primers vs the small rifle magnum primers across my chrono on Friday afternoon. Everything else will be identical for the experiment.
i'm not sure how to test the hang fires, other than using slow motion recording on your phone. pointing it at the trigger finger and listening for the bang bang noise. very crude but might work.

i'm interested in FPS and POI shifts. If they are the same or different but consistent... meh.
__________________
Your rifle will almost always shoot better than you! Master the 6 steps to taking a shot before you buy a different rifle to compensate for lack of practice/skill.
Moorvogi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2020, 04:29 PM #5
Melnic's Avatar
Melnic Melnic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: HoCo
Posts: 7,937
Melnic Melnic is offline
Senior Member
Melnic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: HoCo
Posts: 7,937
for reference
Attached Images
 
Melnic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2020, 06:30 PM #6
Doco Overboard's Avatar
Doco Overboard Doco Overboard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: The heart of the Delmarva Penninsula
Posts: 3,062
Doco Overboard Doco Overboard is offline
Senior Member
Doco Overboard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: The heart of the Delmarva Penninsula
Posts: 3,062
Primers should be able to ignite all the powder space simultaneously as much as possible not just the powder that has accumulated near the flash hole. In a low order of ignition the flash may only penetrate the powder column so far which means in turn it will take grains of powder burning to completely ignite the rest of the charge. In a large case the problems will be inconsistent velocity, poor accuracy or an occasional hang-fire in a very large case which can also lead to detonation.
Something else to consider is that a certain amount of thermal energy is lost in what may be considered large cartridge cases like 3006 and up due to the size of the case and the cooling effect with contact of the chamber walls.
Primer efficiency is determined by the powder composition and granulation of the powder, volume and shape of the cartridge and heat generated by the explosion of the priming compound. It is also known that strong primers in small cases can be the cause of poor accuracy, high and erratic pressures with some but not all powders 4759 being one of them which is why its popularity I suspect is on the decrease if its even manufactured anymore.

I used 4320 in a Remington magnum case with LR primers and experienced the above some years ago. The chamber however did not headspace on the shoulder but entirely on the belt which may have been contributory to the problem to a certain degree. Accuracy was affected until the rifle became warmed and then settled down but never satisfactorily. Obtaining WLRM's solved the problem for me.
Doco Overboard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2020, 11:03 PM #7
Jerry M Jerry M is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Glen Burnie MD
Posts: 1,405
Jerry M Jerry M is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Glen Burnie MD
Posts: 1,405
Use magnum primers.

Good Luck

Jerry
Jerry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2020, 01:18 AM #8
Postell's Avatar
Postell Postell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 234
Postell Postell is offline
Member
Postell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Park ranger View Post
Hang fires, lower pressures and velocity, failure to ignite, would be more common. I like the coolest primer that will get the job done. Palma shooters will use small rifle primer brass to set off 46 grains of varget. But...in cool weather its iffy. But with a 300 win mag, that's lots of slow powder. I'd use magnum.

I load a few thousand 300 Win Mag rounds each year, Only one load uses a mag primer.
Please post the data that shows what you are posting please.
Postell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2020, 06:22 AM #9
Pinecone Pinecone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 19,694
Pinecone Pinecone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 19,694
I posted some info over on the CMP Forums (I will put it here later), but testing found that going from the coolest LR primer to the hottest LR Magnum, upped the pressure by 12,800 psi.

Basically your data from using LR primers will be at best worthless, and at worst dangerous, when switching to Magnum primers.
Pinecone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2020, 09:21 AM #10
E.Shell's Avatar
E.Shell E.Shell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Where everyone knows that Epstein Did Not Kill Himself.
Posts: 6,350
E.Shell E.Shell is offline
Senior Member
E.Shell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Where everyone knows that Epstein Did Not Kill Himself.
Posts: 6,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
I posted some info over on the CMP Forums (I will put it here later), but testing found that going from the coolest LR primer to the hottest LR Magnum, upped the pressure by 12,800 psi.

Basically your data from using LR primers will be at best worthless, and at worst dangerous, when switching to Magnum primers.
Yep, definitely cannot switch primers on an established load without expecting a marked change in performance.

Magnum primers are usually recommended for large capacity cartridges using slower powders, but that is a recommendation, not a law. Regarding whether they are needed or not, one can discuss theory all you like, but without testing, you just don't know.

I found that Winchester standard Large Rifle primers were just a little hot, and I could not get my .308's SD numbers down with them. CCI 200 and Fed 210s worked fine. Using hotter or magnum primers in loads that do not need them can be detrimental to performance, in terms of accuracy or consistent velocities.

I had a 6.5-300 Weatherby that burned 86 grains of H870, or almost that much Retumbo. In theory, these loads clearly REQUIRE a magnum primer, but my best accuracy and SD numbers came with using standard LR primers.

Once one gets their head around the fact that magnum and standard primers cannot literally be interchanged without working up a load, safety concerns are no longer an issue and it depends on the desired performance. Cold weather and slow powders in big cases typically call for magnum primers, but it will depend on your load.

Military primers, like CCI#34 and #41, in addition to their slightly harder cup, are more like magnum primers in brisiance, to enhance all-weather reliability.
__________________
Stop calling anti-gun politicians “stupid”. They are not. If you simply look at the way they conduct themselves, you can understand why they fear and hate armed citizens and the grave risk citizens present to the increasingly corrupt. The assault on gun owners and the Constitution/BoR has nothing to do with street-level crime and you will not “educate them” your way out of this.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.
E.Shell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Home Page > Forum List > Topics of Interest > Reloading


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2019, Congregate Media, LP Privacy Policy Terms of Service