En Banc Petition Filed in Baker

Peaceful John · Jul 30, 2014

DC-W said:
I love how they say that since HI does have a permitting process, Moore v Madigan is null in regards to this case. And howwww many permits does HI award?

183. That is 0.02% of their population.

(http://www.scribd.com/doc/233234773/Concealed-Carry-Permit-Holders-Across-the-United-States)

wolfwood · Jul 30, 2014

The en banc petitions in both Baker and Richards were stayed pending resolution of Kamala Harris's intervention request in Peruta. I assume that all three en banc petitions will be decided at the same time.

wolfwood · Jul 30, 2014

Peaceful John said:
183. That is 0.02% of their population.

(http://www.scribd.com/doc/233234773/Concealed-Carry-Permit-Holders-Across-the-United-States)

Those are not citizen permits. All 183 are for security guards (typically armored car driver) or detectives. Hawaii has 0 citizen issued permits.

ryan_j · Jul 30, 2014

wolfwood said:
Those are not citizen permits. All 183 are for security guards (typically armored car driver) or detectives. Hawaii has 0 citizen issued permits.

It's the same deal in NJ. Those 1200+ permits are mostly security guards.

Inigoes · Nov 12, 2014

Any idea on when the stay will get unstuck?

Thinking out loud:

What are the odds of Baker being granted en-banc, after Peruta has been denied en-banc?
Denying en-banc only leaves HI appealling to the SCOTUS!

wolfwood · Nov 12, 2014

Remember Alan Gura has a carry case to. Richards v. Preito. The named Defendant is a very good friend of mine from college. Adam Richards. A en banc petition was filed in Richards as well. I am sure that the stay will be lifted soon in both appeals.

Southwest Chuck · Nov 12, 2014

wolfwood said:
Remember Alan Gura has a carry case to. Richards v. Preito. The named Defendant is a very good friend of mine from college. Adam Richards. A en banc petition was filed in Richards as well. I am sure that the stay will be lifted soon in both appeals.

I thought Adam Richards was the Plaintiff ???

wolfwood · Nov 12, 2014

Sorry that was a typo. I meant Plaintiff. i.e. He's the guy suing to get a permit to carry a handgun.

esqappellate · Nov 12, 2014

Inigoes said:
Any idea on when the stay will get unstuck?

Thinking out loud:

What are the odds of Baker being granted en-banc, after Peruta has been denied en-banc?

Denying en-banc only leaves HI appealling to the SCOTUS!

The petition for rehearing in Peruta was denied only after it was construed to be a motion to intervene, which was likewise denied. That disposition in Peruta dos not bear on the merits petitions for rehearing pending in Baker and Richards, where an actual party is seeking rehearing. It is perfectly possible for rehearing to be granted in either Richards or Baker or both, and failing that, for the defendants in Richards and Baker to seek cert.

Inigoes · Nov 12, 2014

esqappellate said:
The petition for rehearing in Peruta was denied only after it was construed to be a motion to intervene, which was likewise denied. That disposition in Peruta dos not bear on the merits petitions for rehearing pending in Baker and Richards, where an actual party is seeking rehearing. It is perfectly possible for rehearing to be granted in either Richards or Baker or both, and failing that, for the defendants in Richards and Baker to seek cert.

To grant en-banc in Richards or Baker, while leaving Peruta as established law within the CA9 does not make sense. They were all heard together, and should be treated as the same argument.

esqappellate · Nov 12, 2014

Inigoes said:
To grant en-banc in Richards or Baker, while leaving Peruta as established law within the CA9 does not make sense. They were all heard together, and should be treated as the same argument.

Different cases, different parties. And a proper petition for rehearing has been filed in Baker and Richards. As a matter of law, en banc is an option in Baker and Richards whereas in Peruta rehearing was foreclosed because the defendant elected not to pursue it and party status was just denied to the State and others. It ain't over yet.

kcbrown · Nov 12, 2014

esqappellate said:
Different cases, different parties. And a proper petition for rehearing has been filed in Baker and Richards. As a matter of law, en banc is an option in Baker and Richards whereas in Peruta rehearing was foreclosed because the defendant elected not to pursue it and party status was just denied to the State and others. It ain't over yet.

Rehearing is possible in Peruta via sua sponte, but given that an actual petition exists in Richards, I don't see any reason for the 9th Circuit to go the sua sponte route. Since Richards basically says "see Peruta", en banc rehearing of Richards amounts to rehearing of Peruta in practice.

esqappellate · Nov 12, 2014

kcbrown said:
Rehearing is possible in Peruta via sua sponte, but given that an actual petition exists in Richards, I don't see any reason for the 9th Circuit to go the sua sponte route. Since Richards basically says "see Peruta", en banc rehearing of Richards amounts to rehearing of Peruta in practice.

Agreed.

Maestro Pistolero · Nov 13, 2014

kcbrown said:
Rehearing is possible in Peruta via sua sponte, but given that an actual petition exists in Richards, I don't see any reason for the 9th Circuit to go the sua sponte route. Since Richards basically says "see Peruta", en banc rehearing of Richards amounts to rehearing of Peruta in practice.

I posted about this awhile back. I see no reason for the court to take the relatively unusual step of a sua sponte request in Peruta when an en banc petition was likely coming vis a vi Baker and Richards. And in the absence of such petitions, anti-gun justices on the 9th circuit would still get two more swings at sua sponte rehearing.

kcbrown · Nov 13, 2014

Maestro Pistolero said:
I posted about this awhile back. I see no reason for the court to take the relatively unusual step of a sua sponte request in Peruta when an en banc petition was likely coming vis a vi Baker and Richards. And in the absence of such a petition, anti-gun justices on the 9th circuit would still get two more swings at sua sponte rehearing.

Exactly.

I've seen people attempt to argue that an en banc review of Richards or Baker would be unable to touch the reasoning of Peruta, but they're plainly incorrect on that.

Inigoes · Nov 13, 2014

kcbrown said:
Exactly.

I've seen people attempt to argue that an en banc review of Richards or Baker would be unable to touch the reasoning of Peruta, but they're plainly incorrect on that.

I think the CA9 is done.

The courts want the SCOTUS to answer the question.

kcbrown · Nov 13, 2014

Inigoes said:
I think the CA9 is done.

The courts want the SCOTUS to answer the question.

Why would the anti-RKBA majority on CA9 want SCOTUS to answer the question? More precisely, why would they want it to answer the question now while the Heller 5 majority still exists?

Inigoes · Nov 13, 2014

kcbrown said:
Why would the anti-RKBA majority on CA9 want SCOTUS to answer the question? More precisely, why would they want it to answer the question now while the Heller 5 majority still exists?

There is a rumor that the Heller-5 is not as tight as everyone thinks.

Roberts was instrumental to make sure "inside the home" was inserted into the opinion, or it would have been the Heller-4.

teratos · Nov 13, 2014

Inigoes said:
There is a rumor that the Heller-5 is not as tight as everyone thinks.

Roberts was instrumental to make sure "inside the home" was inserted into the opinion, or it would have been the Heller-4.

If he whips out his judicial divining rod and sticks it to us again, he is a complete putz.

Inigoes · Nov 13, 2014

teratos said:
If he whips out his judicial divining rod and sticks it to us again, he is a complete putz.

No argument there. He has royally screwed before, and spins on a dime.

En Banc Petition Filed in Baker

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