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Old January 16th, 2019, 06:51 PM #41
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Best way I guess to explain it (in my mind) would be that you are getting a feel for the speed and then "applying" the appropriate lead based on the speed/trajectory.
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Old January 16th, 2019, 07:36 PM #42
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Originally Posted by PJDiesel View Post
Best way I guess to explain it (in my mind) would be that you are getting a feel for the speed and then "applying" the appropriate lead based on the speed/trajectory.
Yes, you insert the gun at the appropriate lead while trying to match the bird speed. Gil Ash has some videos on this method. He talks about matching the bird speed being more important than lead. Everyone has always talked about leads and not gun speed in the past.
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Old January 16th, 2019, 07:38 PM #43
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Exactly, that's Gil's method. He's a good guy to watch for any level shooter really.

There are some deviations, as with anything. Overhead targets, quartering, falling, incoming, rising, etc.
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Old January 17th, 2019, 02:30 AM #44
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Most top shots are shooting sustained lead in all the disciplines nowadays. That wasnít always the case. I didnít shoot a lot of trap in the 80ís so I donít know what the top shots at the time were shooting. But in Skeet some of the old timers were still shooting swing through, but they werenít winning. The Skeet game now is being able to shoot doubles (at stations 3, 4, 5) to win a shoot-off. Thatís where sustained lead REALLY helps. Itís crazy how consistent these guys can be shooting doubles at stations 3,4, and 5. I saw 2 of the greatest go 7 boxes (175 shots) of doubles to determine a winner. They only shot 4 boxes of singles to get to the shoot off. If anyone thinks Skeet is too easy we can shoot some doubles or .410 and see how easy that is.
Sustain lead always sermed to me to be of particular benefit when shooting handicap on the Trap field. I experimented with it some especially with handicap. However, it just never felt natural to me since I was previously a hunter shooting birds in fields that flew at various angles and speeds. Swing through seemed 'self adjusting' to me for hunting and more instinctive in general although I guess some shooting (snap shooting in particular) is basically just spot shooting, so, yeah....I did some of that as well...at least when hunting But the clays disciplines (Sporting Clays wasn't a thing I heard of back then) basically used targets flying at similar speeds albeit presented from somewhat different angle The best shooters I knew back then that were very good and very consistent were guys who used and consistently practiced sustained lead and I could, frankly, not keep up with their consistency. Though I shot several thousand rounds per year back then and was considered by hunting buddies a great shot, I was never better than a pretty good shot at ATA. After a few years of fairly intensive trap shooting, I just dropped back to shooting occasional clays and sold of my BTs in favor of a field grade Citori that shot similar to many of my other hunting guns. Trying to go back and forth between field guns and trap guns affected my shooting in both Trap and hunting because I had to conciously remember whether to 'float' the target (clay or bird) or not.
Skeet for me was never more than an occassional endeavor so I can't say for sure what methods others were shooting. But I was amazed at the number of guys who could string 50 or 100 or more clays in a row time after time. I always just figured most of those guys were sustained lead shooters.
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Old January 17th, 2019, 08:41 AM #45
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Yes, you insert the gun at the appropriate lead while trying to match the bird speed. Gil Ash has some videos on this method. He talks about matching the bird speed being more important than lead. Everyone has always talked about leads and not gun speed in the past.
I have had him twice as an instructor. He was one of the instructors in my NSCA instructor class, then I took one of his OSP classes.

Yeah, the match speed works superbly on high crossing targets (like off a tower).

To me, a good shotgun shooter needs to be able to use all methods, and the right one at the right time. Or to correct an error.

If you miss seeing the bird, you might be swinging from behind, so being able to use swing through saves extra steps. Same with pull away.

But I tend to use sustained lead for most shots.

But then again, I don't really think about it. I concentrate on the target, and make the shotgun do what is needed to make it right.
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