Gun Transport in MD

Mark75H · Jan 20, 2015

swinokur said:
As an example, if I went into NJ, not through NJ and I was stopped. I could use FOPA even though I have not driven through NJ yet.

IANAL

As long as your destination is not in NJ.

swinokur · Jan 20, 2015

true, my point is that you don't have to drive through a state to possibly use FOPA as an affirmative defense. If your car is titled in MD and you drive into PA or VA, you have just traveled interstate, and you can carry and possess in both, therefore you could use FOPA, even though those states have better gun laws than MD.

whether you would have to is another question.

just my opinion

IANAL

Brooklyn · Jan 20, 2015

Pinecone said:
One point, going out of state does not trigger FOPA, going from one state to another, THROUGH a state does.

MD to PA or MD to VA does not involve FOPA. You meet the requirements in MD and PA or VA as appropriate and you are good.

Going from MD to NC THROUGH VA, you can either meet the requirements of VA while in that state, or meet the requirements of FOPA. Which ever is easier.

FOPA is only really needed in a few rabidly anti-gun states. NJ, NY, Mass come to mind.

No.. but if you like you can travel from MD to pa though wv.

However while in MD or pa for example as destination states all local laws would apply.
But while in transit fopa applies. The case that fopa ends when you stop allong the way in your home state is strong, esp if you can't prove an out of state destination. But all MD transport requires you to prove a destination, a neat reversal of the burden of proof which we need to deal with in time.

But ...you can not claim FOPA if you are transporting pursuaint to MD rules which are weaker and more permisive than FOPA rules. So transport under fopa rules even intrastate as they are less permisive and thus allso satisfy MD

Under no circumstances should we concede the antis claim and insane reading of the term interstate.

IANAL. THIS IS NOT LEAGAL ADVICE.

swinokur · Jan 20, 2015

All true. The salient parts of my post is

The term through is not used in FOPA
The title of the statute is Interstate Transportation.

Draw your owen conclusions.

IANAL either.

Vile Shadow · Jan 20, 2015

swinokur said:
nope. all that is required is the handguns be in an enclosed case or holster. No locks required. The ammo can even be be with the handguns, just not loaded into same. Per the AG, loaded mags are fine as well, just not in the firearm.

"WITH" meaning in the same case, while not necessarily IN the gun?

swinokur · Jan 20, 2015

The law doesn't prohibit it, so in my mind it's allowed.

IANAL

Vile Shadow · Jan 20, 2015

swinokur said:
The law doesn't prohibit it, so in my mind it's allowed.

IANAL

I had someone tell me that's a felony here. So misinformation abounds.

But I think you're a more reliable source than the one who told me that.

swinokur · Jan 20, 2015

I appreciate it but IANAL. I just try to discern what the statute actually says, not what it you think it allows. If it's not specifically prohibited it's allowed IMO.. Many laws are written this way.

IANAL again

Brooklyn · Jan 20, 2015

swinokur said:
All true. The salient parts of my post is

The term through is not used in FOPA
The title of the statute is Interstate Transportation.

Draw your owen conclusions.

IANAL either.

Yup we agree here.. sometimes I jump in on my cell with out a direct quote..

And even if though were used.. interstate is a very well leveraged in federal law..no judge wants to pull that string...

Pinecone · Jan 20, 2015

swinokur said:
I disagree. You could still use FOPA IMO. You would have to prove if stopped in your origina state like MD you werer traveling out of state, but FOPA exceeds MD law anyway. You of course, may, when. going from one state to another just comply with that state's laws. The title of FOPA is Interstate Transport.....Going from one state to another is interstate however. Nothing in FOPA mentions "through" It simply says going from a place where you can possess and carry TO a place where you can possess and carry. Not necessarily THROUGH the state. ie. going to VA or DE. IMO either would be leal but iANAL.

So you can carry your firearm in MD, in accordance to FOPA, in violation of MD state law, if going to another state.

If you think so.

But I am also having a hard time figuring out how you would be in violation of MD law but in compliance with FOPA. If I am going to VA and overnighting there, I am transporting from one residence to another, which is legal in MD. Or I was going shooting in VA, I would be transporting to a range (formal or informal) which is legal in MD.

Pinecone · Jan 20, 2015

swinokur said:
As an example, if I went into NJ, not through NJ and I was stopped. I could use FOPA even though I have not driven through NJ yet.

IANAL

Only if you can show that you were on your way THROUGH NJ. If you were headed to a DESTINATION in NJ, then you would be covered by NJ law. You would be in violation of FOPA, as you are not legal at your destination.

Pinecone · Jan 20, 2015

swinokur said:
All true. The salient parts of my post is

The term through is not used in FOPA
The title of the statute is Interstate Transportation.

Draw your owen conclusions.

IANAL either.

But FOPA does that you have to legal at both ends of your journey. So legal in VA headed to VA, but in violation of MD law would not be covered, IMO.

swinokur · Jan 20, 2015

I agree but you said crossing a state line doesn't automatically trigger FOPA. I think it does. I am not arguing the actual law of the state you are goint into. If you live in VA and drive into MD, FOPA is triggered as long as you don't stop.

That's my point.

swinokur · Jan 20, 2015

Pinecone said:
So you can carry your firearm in MD, in accordance to FOPA, in violation of MD state law, if going to another state.

If you think so.

But I am also having a hard time figuring out how you would be in violation of MD law but in compliance with FOPA. If I am going to VA and overnighting there, I am transporting from one residence to another, which is legal in MD. Or I was going shooting in VA, I would be transporting to a range (formal or informal) which is legal in MD.

I'm not arguing that. FOPA exceeds MD transport requirements. I am saying when you cross the state line, you could use FOPA as you are now interstate. I am not even talking about proving your destination. If you don't stop, then if the state law is more restrictive, you're covered just by virtue of crossing the state line and being Interstate. You said it doesn't. That's where we disagree. Crossing the state line gives you an affirmative FOPA defense if you needed it, state law nothwithstanding.

That's my point.

Brooklyn · Jan 20, 2015

Pinecone said:
So you can carry your firearm in MD, in accordance to FOPA, in violation of MD state law, if going to another state.

If you think so.

But I am also having a hard time figuring out how you would be in violation of MD law but in compliance with FOPA. If I am going to VA and overnighting there, I am transporting from one residence to another, which is legal in MD. Or I was going shooting in VA, I would be transporting to a range (formal or informal) which is legal in MD.

This is key. The FOPA safe Harbor is such that if you are carrying a firearm you are not in compiance with FOPA.

It is not AFAIK legal to transport from one Md home to another under MD black letter law without an intermediate stop at a legal destination..
I don't have the code handy and cell phones are a bitch so I could be wrong..

NJ is even worse. FOPA has more restrictive storage requirements but more liberal destination requirements.

Do not attempt to transport in NJ without FOPA.. its worth a trip to PA should you need to make case law.

Brooklyn · Jan 20, 2015

swinokur said:
I agree but you said crossing a state line doesn't automatically trigger FOPA. I think it does. I am not arguing the actual law of the state you are goint into. If you live in VA and drive into MD, FOPA is triggered as long as you don't stop.

That's my point.

It only helps if you are compliant with FOPA transport.. I always wondered why Md code is less strict..my answer is to trip you up.. fail to lock if in an SUV and you can't claim FOPA.. once I realuse d that I use FOPA rules all the time..even if intrastate to avoid the trap.

swinokur · Jan 20, 2015

Agreed completely I said in more than one post FOPA is stricter than MD-but only if you comply with it.

I do the same, and having it locked and out of sight also prevents fishing expeditions since it cannot be seen from outside the vehicle during a stop.

:thumbsup:

Brooklyn · Jan 20, 2015

Pinecone said:
But FOPA does that you have to legal at both ends of your journey. So legal in VA headed to VA, but in violation of MD law would not be covered, IMO.

That is correct. But the transport is not the issue. You may have a gun that's not Md legal..that's not covered by FOPA. You ma have loaded magazines.. or worse you may have disasempled magazines over 10 rounds which they may claim is nanufacturing

Want to be extra safe drive ?directly from home out of state. Never shut the engine.. never park. No gas nothing. Make sure that at all times you are operating the vechile under Md code...that is you would face a moving violation for any infraction.

Then make case law. But really you are covered my FOPA if your intended destination is out of state.

AND YOu transport under FOPA rules. Stop only when required by law and transport only lawful firearms in. All intended destination juristictions. God only knows about unintended jurustictions...

And so far the news is not encouraging..

Brooklyn · Jan 20, 2015

swinokur said:
Agreed completely I said in more than one post FOPA is stricter than MD-but only if you comply with it.

I do the same, and having it locked and out of sight also prevents fishing expeditions since it cannot be seen from outside the vehicle during a stop.

I pound on it for the newbees. I was one not long ago so I know how hard this is and how careful you need to be..

Lots of well meaning folks told me " no locks required "

Well post FSA2013 belt and suspenders time..

swinokur · Jan 20, 2015

While MD law has allowances for certain activities, there is no carve out for simple out of state travel. So if stopped in MD and not engaged in an allowed activity, what else could you use besides FOPA? If still in MD and if the state wants to prosecute you? You have no state protection at that point that I can see. Esqappellate has opined that if you are truly traveling out of state, have some proof ie hotel or air reservations, etc. That would help with a FOPA defense while still in MD.

Gun Transport in MD

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

MD Wear&Carry Instructor

In a State of Bliss

I stand with John Locke.

In a State of Bliss

...

In a State of Bliss

...

In a State of Bliss

I stand with John Locke.

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

In a State of Bliss

In a State of Bliss

I stand with John Locke.

I stand with John Locke.

In a State of Bliss

I stand with John Locke.

I stand with John Locke.

In a State of Bliss

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics