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Old August 10th, 2017, 02:20 PM #1
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What an appeal to the HPRB looks like

For your viewing pleasure:




Be sure to subscribe to the MSI YouTube page for more
https://www.youtube.com/c/marylandshallissue
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Old August 10th, 2017, 03:20 PM #2
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As nice as the legal argument was by MSI President, the discussion after made no mention it was a determining factor. The atty on HPRB even stated, "Each case stands on it's own merits". More like the Napoleonic code. That tells me that case law isn't anything to rely on at HPRB. Flame away..
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Old August 10th, 2017, 03:33 PM #3
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Well done MSI. Well done.

I did not expect that outcome.
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Old August 10th, 2017, 03:39 PM #4
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"While Conducting Business"

Congrats on getting the restriction lifted from this particular permit holder!

I have a CCW permit, and have the restriction on my permit, as well. I wrote MSP for a clarification as to what that meant, as I did not want to unknowingly violate the restriction. I got my permit at the end of January 2017, and wrote MSP, prior to the deadline to do so,for a clarification, or, in the alternative, a hearing. I received no response. A couple of months later, I wrote again. Again, no response. I am about to do so again.

I am a solo practice attorney, and "conduct business" 24/7. I have my office phones forwarded to my cell when I leave the office. I often receive phone calls while at dinner, and sometimes, at 2:00 a.m. I go meet clients after-hours. I advertise evenings and weekends. As such, sometimes I meet a client at 9:00 on Tuesday, or 4 p.m. on a Sunday, outside most others' work hours.

It seems to me that, should I get arrested because law enforcement believes that I am acting outside the scope of "conducting business," because of the vagueness of the restriction, I would eventually prevail in court. However, obviously, the goal is to avoid being arrested in the first place.

Has there been any clarification by MSP or any other LEA as to what "conducting business" means?

I appreciate any response.
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Old August 10th, 2017, 04:31 PM #5
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Well done, but that video needed two more things:


1. More closeups of Ms. Judah

2. More cowbell



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Old August 10th, 2017, 06:56 PM #6
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As far as I am aware, MSP has not acted to clarify definitions which are central to the exercise of the rights "granted" to the permit holder. Neither have they ever provided a definition of such a concept so basic to their mission as "good and substantial".

Like the restrictions placed on the written word in the middle of the last century regarding "pornography", apparently the MSP can't define it, but they "know it when they see it". Most of the MSP determinations are arbitrary, capricious, and dependent on the mood and attitude of the investigating officer in the LD.

It's challenging to not run afoul of a law that has no generally accepted meaning. It can also be expensive, and life-changing, usually for the worse.

The cynic in me suspects that this situation is intentional, part and parcel of the General Assembly's stance regarding the civil rights of citizens of this Free State. The internal culture of the MSP is also inclined to support their position of issuing the smallest number of permits possible, a classic bureaucratic response: if no permits are issued, no one in the organisation will suffer any consequences from having issued a permit.
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Old August 10th, 2017, 07:19 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songlaw View Post
Congrats on getting the restriction lifted from this particular permit holder!

I have a CCW permit, and have the restriction on my permit, as well. I wrote MSP for a clarification as to what that meant, as I did not want to unknowingly violate the restriction. I got my permit at the end of January 2017, and wrote MSP, prior to the deadline to do so,for a clarification, or, in the alternative, a hearing. I received no response. A couple of months later, I wrote again. Again, no response. I am about to do so again.

I am a solo practice attorney, and "conduct business" 24/7. I have my office phones forwarded to my cell when I leave the office. I often receive phone calls while at dinner, and sometimes, at 2:00 a.m. I go meet clients after-hours. I advertise evenings and weekends. As such, sometimes I meet a client at 9:00 on Tuesday, or 4 p.m. on a Sunday, outside most others' work hours.

It seems to me that, should I get arrested because law enforcement believes that I am acting outside the scope of "conducting business," because of the vagueness of the restriction, I would eventually prevail in court. However, obviously, the goal is to avoid being arrested in the first place.

Has there been any clarification by MSP or any other LEA as to what "conducting business" means?

I appreciate any response.
I think you have a shot. Others have had their restrictions lifted for situations like yours. I'll let others more knowing advise you on the process. And bear in mind, as always, YMMV.
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Old August 10th, 2017, 07:28 PM #8
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What an appeal to the HPRB looks like

Handgun permit holders commit less crime than police officers.
Permit holders are just looking for a fair, objective permit approval process and a clear understanding of what the laws are they need to abide by.
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Old August 11th, 2017, 12:29 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC-W View Post
For your viewing pleasure:




Be sure to subscribe to the MSI YouTube page for more
https://www.youtube.com/c/marylandshallissue
DISCLAIMER: This is by no means a dig at Mr. Pennack. He is brilliant and hold more knowledge in his pinkie than I will ever achieve.

Something struck me. The board allowed the "expert witness" to speak and testify, but when I myself was asked by an applicant to accompany him into closed session, because the SP was afraid of their secret recipe being broadcast to the world, I was told I could not speak in support of the applicant.


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Old August 11th, 2017, 09:02 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montoya32 View Post
DISCLAIMER: This is by no means a dig at Mr. Pennack. He is brilliant and hold more knowledge in his pinkie than I will ever achieve.

Something struck me. The board allowed the "expert witness" to speak and testify, but when I myself was asked by an applicant to accompany him into closed session, because the SP was afraid of their secret recipe being broadcast to the world, I was told I could not speak in support of the applicant.


You are not a lawyer, can't practice or argue law. Legum spelled out what a witness really is. I've seen expert witnesses, but all went through 30+ minutes of challenge before qualified as an expert if they had no previous admission as an expert on "x" to cite. Boards like this are fast and loose to say the least. Going pro se , then representing an attorney as an expert witness is interesting. Note Hollman, "I'll consider it for whatever it is worth". That was no endorsement as accepting the testimony as expert. Hollman also was shrewd during discussion before ruling not to mention any of Pennak's argument as a factor in his decision.
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