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Old October 29th, 2013, 05:49 PM #1
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Norman v. State (FL) Open Carry lawsuit

Guy is arrested for open carry of a pistol, but just received his CCW that very day. State precedent says CCW is a privilege, not a right. State is pushing forward with prosecution.

https://www.floridacarry.org/index.p...norman-v-state

Briefs have been filed by Norman, Florida, and now Norman's reply is in. The state's position makes this a case to watch. They are not claiming that shall-issue CCW satisfies the right; simply that a ban on OC is a reasonable regulation(they say it over and over again with no evidence).

This is currently in a FL appeals court.

The State argues that because reasonable regulation of the right to bear arms
is allowed, and because the State believes the regulation at issue to be reasonable,
the ban on open carry passes constitutional muster.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 06:35 PM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
Guy is arrested for open carry of a pistol, but just received his CCW that very day. State precedent says CCW is a privilege, not a right. State is pushing forward with prosecution.

https://www.floridacarry.org/index.p...norman-v-state

Briefs have been filed by Norman, Florida, and now Norman's reply is in. The state's position makes this a case to watch. They are not claiming that shall-issue CCW satisfies the right; simply that a ban on OC is a reasonable regulation(they say it over and over again with no evidence).

This is currently in a FL appeals court.

The State argues that because reasonable regulation of the right to bear arms
is allowed, and because the State believes the regulation at issue to be reasonable,
the ban on open carry passes constitutional muster.
Why shouldn't they argue that? The federal judiciary has made clear that a state's belief that a regulation is reasonable makes it in fact, "reasonable." No evidence need be provided.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 06:36 PM #3
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Wow.. they really want to push this?

Its not even real open carry.....

If this is how it is in Fl god help us Here in Md....
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Old October 29th, 2013, 06:38 PM #4
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Quote:
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Why shouldn't they argue that? The federal judiciary has made clear that a state's belief that a regulation is reasonable makes it in fact, "reasonable." No evidence need be provided.
Try again.. nothing is clear.. and fl is pushing it hard...

Case to watch for sure.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 06:42 PM #5
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Quote:
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Try again.. nothing is clear.. and fl is pushing it hard...

Case to watch for sure.
How is it not clear? The 4th, 2nd, 3rd and D.C. Circuits have all ruled exactly that.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 07:52 PM #6
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This is an older case (and has been discussed here prior).

Certainly sets up a split potential. (If I am not mistaken it sets up a State Supreme Court vs. US Circuit split, intra-circuit).

But, that said, my new job has me spinning my head the last few days.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 08:10 PM #7
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I would like to know how his firearm "unknowingly became unconcealed while walking down the street"
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Old October 29th, 2013, 08:16 PM #8
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Quote:
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I would like to know how his firearm "unknowingly became unconcealed while walking down the street"
This is a problem for many new CCers, one that is easily avoided if you take the time and care necessary to carry properly until it becomes second nature. The reason I like the CC laws of Colorado is because, except in Denver city limits, OC is legal so CC slips are usually not a legal issue for you. FL isn't that way and, IMO, you have the responsibility to know the law and follow it to the best of your ability when you CC. This man failed to do so based on the little I've read of it.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 09:26 PM #9
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I would like to know how his firearm "unknowingly became unconcealed while walking down the street"
Wind gust will do it. It happens. It happened to me in an oc OK state and I was able to quickly fix it.

Maybe there is more to this than it first appears but it sounds like a bs charge... I will defer pending more info.
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Last edited by Brooklyn; March 8th, 2014 at 06:29 PM.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 09:27 PM #10
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There are four FL Justices nominated by Gov Crist (R), two nominated by Gov Chiles (D) and one by both Chiles and Jeb Bush (Chiles' choice, but Bush agreed to prevent controversy).

Justice Labarga's input into the decision could be very interesting, he was born in Cuba in 1952 and arrived in the US at 11 years old.

ETA:
Oh, the case is not yet to the FL Supreme Court, it is still at the intermediate appeals court.
I liked the state needing a total of four extensions and one hold for objection, delaying their response brief by 180 days.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 09:28 PM #11
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Quote:
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How is it not clear? The 4th, 2nd, 3rd and D.C. Circuits have all ruled exactly that.
RB IS NOT IS. RB DOES NOT BECOME IS JUST BECAUSE THE COURT DOES NOT WANT TO DO ITS JOB.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 09:41 PM #12
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Quote:
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RB IS NOT IS. RB DOES NOT BECOME IS JUST BECAUSE THE COURT DOES NOT WANT TO DO ITS JOB.
Of course. I don't disagree with you. But as long as the people aren't willing to literally storm the courthouses with pitchforks and take the judges out, the BS they spew carries the force of the law.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 09:52 PM #13
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Of course. I don't disagree with you. But as long as the people aren't willing to literally storm the courthouses with pitchforks and take the judges out, the BS they spew carries the force of the law.
Not relevant.

Be thankful they are making the same bad case..

And stop all this nonsense about pitchforks. You will either sound silly or you will sound like a threat -- neither helps our case.

Put your passion into getting people involved.


2.5 million people on the Washington mall have made an impact before -- peacefully making there point --.

But if you are into pitchforks you are of no help to me or anyone else ...
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Old October 30th, 2013, 02:48 AM #14
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Quote:
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Why shouldn't they argue that? The federal judiciary has made clear that a state's belief that a regulation is reasonable makes it in fact, "reasonable." No evidence need be provided.
The trick used in CA2,3, and 4 was intermediate scrutiny two-step. They're actually arguing rational basis here.
FL's strategy here, seems to me, will almost guarantee an opinion that will be highly useful for a split.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 07:25 AM #15
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The trick used in CA2,3, and 4 was intermediate scrutiny two-step. They're actually arguing rational basis here.
FL's strategy here, seems to me, will almost guarantee an opinion that will be highly useful for a split.
Thanks for pointing that out - I am way behind on my reading list -- very helpful
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Old October 30th, 2013, 01:06 PM #16
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I grew up in that town. While it's not as bad as it was when I was in high school, you really do need to carry, because everyone else is. Back in the late 80s, Fort Pierce was the crack capitol of the world and No. 1 in STDs per population. South East, DC has nothing on Ave. D in Fort Pierce.
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Old March 8th, 2014, 07:58 AM #17
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Small update here-Briefings are now concluded, The FL appeals court handling this case has dispensed with oral arguments: https://www.floridacarry.org/index.p...norman-v-state
Guess an opinion will be forthcoming.
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Old May 25th, 2014, 09:55 AM #18
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http://199.242.69.70/pls/ds/ds_docke...&psSearchType=

ORDERED sua sponte that jurisdiction is hereby relinquished to the trial court for the purpose of rendering a written judgment and sentence in accordance with its oral pronouncement of August 14, 2012; further ORDERED that the trial court shall file with this court said written judgment and sentence within thirty (30) days from the date of this order.

Need help from the legal eagles here. Does this mean the appeals court is directing them to setence Norman (meaning he loses), or are they directing the trial court to make a ruling(which wasn't done since they certified questions to the appeals court)?
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Old May 26th, 2014, 08:00 PM #19
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Finally,...an attorney that gets it.....

Norman v. State

"The state cannot ban open carry. It is the core of the right to bear arms.
When every court to consider the issue has ruled that concealed carry is a
privilege, and if you accept that there is a right to bear arms as the plain language
states, there is only one manner in which firearms can be borne in the exercise of
the right–openly."
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Old June 18th, 2014, 04:56 PM #20
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So Something was handed down: https://www.floridacarry.org/images/...to_Dismiss.pdf

I need a legal translation on what happened here. There was almost no mention of the open carry challenge, just that Norman was found guilty by a jury but the judge withholds judgement of conviction.
Also see here for all of this case's movements: https://www.floridacarry.org/index.p...norman-v-state

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