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Old August 8th, 2017, 07:57 AM #21
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I also own a 19-3 blued with the 6" barrel of 1969 vintage. Love it!!! $450 sounds like a great deal on the nickel 4 inch barrel assuming the gun checks out ok.

Here is a good read in regards to the possible issues with the forcing cone due to using hotter light bullet weight loads.

http://www.gunblast.com/Butch_MagnumLoads.htm
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Old August 8th, 2017, 08:47 AM #22
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Originally Posted by mpdc4511 View Post
Mike, I spoke with V last night and he should have given you my number. I will be at work tomorrow morning when you run over there but if you want any help give me a yell.
Yes, he did, and thank you. I will have your # and will call if we find anything that needs better knowledge to assess.

Thanks again to all who've posted info and links. I have some reading and learning to do. I do have a set of automotive feeler gauges that might be worth bringing with me (depending upon what I find in the links provided).
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Old August 8th, 2017, 04:06 PM #23
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I'm not knowledgeable about this. It has wood grips and they looked good.

To all posters, thanks for the info so far.
There were several different grips over the years. The early grips were not cut for speed loaders. The one in the G.B. pic. has early type grips that are not cut for the speed loaders. The early style grips are highly collectable and worth around $200+ in mint condition. The dished portion of the grips on the pictured gun was completely cut out so that speed loaders could be used with the later versions. The left grip on those will look like a "U" shape and the frame is visible in that area.
I learned about the early grips from a friend of mine, who is a retired BCPD armorer, when he was looking at some of my collection one day. Another thing he told me is to look at the cylinder crane to make sure it is not sprung. Seems a lot of people used to watch too much tv and used to flip the whole gun to the side to slap the cylinder closed, which causes the crane to get sprung. The crane is the part that the cylinder is mounted to and swings open for loading. Check to make sure there is no gap between the frame and crane when the cylinder is closed, it should fit close and uniform. Check to be sure the cylinder does not wobble when turned, it should spin straight and uniform.
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Old August 9th, 2017, 03:58 PM #24
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AAR

So I went back to the LGS today and had Fidelity meet me there. Thank you very much for doing that. I greatly appreciate you giving me the benefit of your time and knowledge. Even better, he went to the "pains" of firing a few rounds off earlier in the day so we'd have some empty brass to use in the inspection. Really though, MDS is full of stand-up guys. This forum is the best!

Armed with the PDF linked by Uncle Duke and a few tools we gave the gun a good field inspection. First, a little to my embarrassment, the gun is a S&W 65-3; 4" barrel, not what I mistook it for when I went looking for pics on the internet the day after I saw it. My apologies to those who I asked for info from, on the wrong gun.

The gun is very nice. there are many small wear and tear marks, not really scratches, on the metal. It has rosewood replacement handles. Under the handles there is some corrosion with light pitting on the right side of the frame under the handle.

The bore is clean and did not show any signs of wear or pitting. The cylinder-barrel gap is spot-on at .006". and there is no evidence of a cut line in the frame at the front of the cylinder. The forcing cone showed minor wear, but no crack or other visible damage. I had a light and pair of 3X magnifier head gear to better see the small stuff up close.

The firing pin protrusion is good. It has at least the recommended .030".

The timing and lock up appear correct, but there is more play in the lock up than desirable, based on comparison to a similar 3" gun at the shop. Also the cylinder endshake is present, but acceptable.

The cylinder to bore alignment is good. But with the lock up a little iffy, the alignment could easily be knocked off center with a little pressure on the cylinder.

What I find most concerning is the headspace. From what I read, it should be .006 - .012 and this gun seems to have at least .015" which is .005 more than "optimum".

Based upon the above, I did make an offer to buy, but at a lower price. It turns out the seller was there between my call to hold the gun and today. He lowered the price on his other guns but not this one because he saw the hold tag on it. So perhaps there is some room to negotiate. The LGS said they'd contact him and get back to me.

Don't I sound all smart and knowledgeable now? I'm not, I'm just using the lingo in the PDF and what I've learned from Fidelity and the info all of you have given me here and the PMs sent by some helpful members too. Many thanks to all of you.

So that is were I am now. Any new thoughts or advice will be appreciated.
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Old August 9th, 2017, 04:28 PM #25
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Nice to see you again as well, Mike.

I think a lower price on this revolver would be reasonable, so hope they're able to move on it.
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Old August 9th, 2017, 04:37 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
So I went back to the LGS today and had Fidelity meet me there. Thank you very much for doing that. I greatly appreciate you giving me the benefit of your time and knowledge. Even better, he went to the "pains" of firing a few rounds off earlier in the day so we'd have some empty brass to use in the inspection. Really though, MDS is full of stand-up guys. This forum is the best!

Armed with the PDF linked by Uncle Duke and a few tools we gave the gun a good field inspection. First, a little to my embarrassment, the gun is a S&W 65-3; 4" barrel, not what I mistook it for when I went looking for pics on the internet the day after I saw it. My apologies to those who I asked for info from, on the wrong gun.

The gun is very nice. there are many small wear and tear marks, not really scratches, on the metal. It has rosewood replacement handles. Under the handles there is some corrosion with light pitting on the right side of the frame under the handle.

The bore is clean and did not show any signs of wear or pitting. The cylinder-barrel gap is spot-on at .006". and there is no evidence of a cut line in the frame at the front of the cylinder. The forcing cone showed minor wear, but no crack or other visible damage. I had a light and pair of 3X magnifier head gear to better see the small stuff up close.

The firing pin protrusion is good. It has at least the recommended .030".

The timing and lock up appear correct, but there is more play in the lock up than desirable, based on comparison to a similar 3" gun at the shop. Also the cylinder endshake is present, but acceptable.

The cylinder to bore alignment is good. But with the lock up a little iffy, the alignment could easily be knocked off center with a little pressure on the cylinder.

What I find most concerning is the headspace. From what I read, it should be .006 - .012 and this gun seems to have at least .015" which is .005 more than "optimum".

Based upon the above, I did make an offer to buy, but at a lower price. It turns out the seller was there between my call to hold the gun and today. He lowered the price on his other guns but not this one because he saw the hold tag on it. So perhaps there is some room to negotiate. The LGS said they'd contact him and get back to me.

Don't I sound all smart and knowledgeable now? I'm not, I'm just using the lingo in the PDF and what I've learned from Fidelity and the info all of you have given me here and the PMs sent by some helpful members too. Many thanks to all of you.

So that is were I am now. Any new thoughts or advice will be appreciated.
Good on Fidelity for helping you out. Sounds like you've grasped the lingo and the concepts both pretty darned well!

Win lose or draw on this one, you had yourself a pretty good day!

Happy Hunting!
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Old August 9th, 2017, 04:37 PM #27
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Different model gun and non-original grips changes the value significantly. Any mechanical issues will reduce the value as well. I wouldn't spend that much on a used 65-3.
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Old August 9th, 2017, 05:00 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fidelity View Post
Nice to see you again as well, Mike.

I think a lower price on this revolver would be reasonable, so hope they're able to move on it.
I can't thank you enough. I'm also looking forward to a time we can go shooting. I'm sure I will learn much more then too.
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Old August 9th, 2017, 05:04 PM #29
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Good on Fidelity for helping you out. Sounds like you've grasped the lingo and the concepts both pretty darned well!

Win lose or draw on this one, you had yourself a pretty good day!

Happy Hunting!
Any day going to a gun shop is a good day

Whether the seller comes down on the price or not, it was a nice day and I learned a lot.
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Old August 9th, 2017, 05:13 PM #30
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Ehhh The 65 has no flare IMHO. The 64s were mostly prison guard guns, same with the 65 to the best of my knowledge. 64s are cheaper and essentially the same thing except 38 only. If it were an actual 19 I'd say but it. A 65....ehhh doesn't razzle my trousers
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Old August 12th, 2017, 09:56 AM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dist1646 View Post
Different model gun and non-original grips changes the value significantly. Any mechanical issues will reduce the value as well. I wouldn't spend that much on a used 65-3.
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Ehhh The 65 has no flare IMHO. The 64s were mostly prison guard guns, same with the 65 to the best of my knowledge. 64s are cheaper and essentially the same thing except 38 only. If it were an actual 19 I'd say but it. A 65....ehhh doesn't razzle my trousers
The seller's new price is $390 on my offer of $380. With the headspace and cylinder looseness I think $380 was too generous. Any thoughts from the more knowledgeable members here?
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Old August 12th, 2017, 11:36 AM #32
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The seller's new price is $390 on my offer of $380. With the headspace and cylinder looseness I think $380 was too generous. Any thoughts from the more knowledgeable members here?
By headspace, I am presuming that you mean the gap between the barrel and cylinder since the cartridge headspaces on the rim of the case. I generally pass on those that have issues. If it is something I really want, I take along a buddy of mine, who is a factory certified S&W armorer, and have him look it over. There are plenty of these out there so bide your time and get one without issues. I missed out on a nice model 19-4 at one of the dealers I visited this morning. Someone bought it yesterday at a good price. I passed on another S&W due to the issues you describe and overall condition. Too bad, both guns are on my want list.
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Old August 12th, 2017, 01:01 PM #33
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Quote:
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By headspace, I am presuming that you mean the gap between the barrel and cylinder since the cartridge headspaces on the rim of the case. I generally pass on those that have issues. If it is something I really want, I take along a buddy of mine, who is a factory certified S&W armorer, and have him look it over. There are plenty of these out there so bide your time and get one without issues. I missed out on a nice model 19-4 at one of the dealers I visited this morning. Someone bought it yesterday at a good price. I passed on another S&W due to the issues you describe and overall condition. Too bad, both guns are on my want list.
By headspace I mean the gap behind a spent cartridge in the cylinder under the hammer end of the frame. Reference the measurements in my prior AAR post #24.
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Old August 12th, 2017, 04:42 PM #34
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Did you have the .006" feel blade in the barrel/cylinder gap when you checked the headspace? If not, cylinder end shake would allow the cylinder to move forward adding to the headspace value. Shims are available for eliminating end shake, I know Power makes them.
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Old August 12th, 2017, 05:24 PM #35
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Did you have the .006" feel blade in the barrel/cylinder gap when you checked the headspace? If not, cylinder end shake would allow the cylinder to move forward adding to the headspace value. Shims are available for eliminating end shake, I know Power makes them.
I was doing my best to follow the PDF uncle duke linked to in field inspection guide . It didn't say to do that as far as I recall. So no. For those who know about these things, is that how headspace is to be measured, by shimming the barrel gap first?
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Old August 12th, 2017, 07:17 PM #36
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If I had it in my hands, I could tell you momentarily. Long distance, not so much.
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Old August 12th, 2017, 07:55 PM #37
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Understanding the points of wear allows one to determine what measurements mean and how to prevent incorrect measurements. If the end shake were excessive the headspace check would push the cylinder forward taking up the extra space. Different make revolvers do develop wear at different points, checks are similar, though. I am not suggesting things are done incorrectly, just throwing that out there.
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Old August 12th, 2017, 08:14 PM #38
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Thanks for the information guys. Fidelity was there and he showed me a more expensive similar model used S&W with a shorter barrel. The cylinder was much more solid, which is why I have the hesitation over this gun.
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Old August 13th, 2017, 04:33 AM #39
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Side by side examples...nice.
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Old August 13th, 2017, 12:02 PM #40
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Not sure if you are saying you like the shorter barrel, or the cylinder on the shorter barrel model. Shorter barrel models are snappy and not always fun or accurate to shoot.

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