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Old March 15th, 2019, 12:31 AM #311
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Originally Posted by Occam View Post
With all due respect: nope. The arguments against the bills in question are objective. Objectively practical. Objectively constitutional. Objectively rational.
...
Point taken. I am no Thomas Jefferson, nor a Ben Franklin or any of the others. My arguments come from me, not from someone else. They may not be winning arguments, but I never claimed that I had winning arguments. But at least I have tried and put forth effort. That is all I can do.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 12:36 AM #312
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HB0740 as amended is not good news. There is nothing good news about it surviving committee in any way, shape, or form. Might I suggest that you use your restored enthusiasm to fight these crap bills, including HB0740. Send letters, visit and/or call your delegates, and come down to Annapolis. I know you want to. Now's the time!
I posted in the new HB0740 thread my feelings about that particular bill. I agree that bill is totally bogus. It could have been far worse. I am doing what I can for now by donating dollars and writing letters myself. I am not sitting completely idle over here. Now that I have witnessed the Annapolis procedure, I feel confident in showing up to testify. I have to agree with fabsroman too. Certain members of the MGA are completely deaf. The more of us on the front line the better. Will see you in Annapolis sometime in the near future.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 12:39 AM #313
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I posted in the new HB0740 thread my feelings about that particular bill. I agree that bill is totally bogus. It could have been far worse. I am doing what I can for now by donating dollars and writing letters myself. I am not sitting completely idle over here. Now that I have witnessed the Annapolis procedure, I feel confident in showing up to testify. I have to agree with fabsroman too. Certain members of the MGA are completely deaf. The more of us on the front line the better. Will see you in Annapolis sometime in the near future.
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Old March 15th, 2019, 12:45 AM #314
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Originally Posted by Occam View Post
With all due respect: nope. The arguments against the bills in question are objective. Objectively practical. Objectively constitutional. Objectively rational.

I didn't write the Declaration of Independence, but if someone handed it to me as the basis for my appearance before an audience that needed to be convinced of the need to sever our 13 colonies from the Crown, it would be the perfect argument to study. A succinct outline of what's wrong with these bills, the ramifications of their passing, the unreasonable burdens they place on law abiding Maryland residents, and their deep friction with the Bill of Rights ... is, well, a succinct outline. It's not one person's story or another. It's the basis for the argument.

To the extent that a witless emotion-driven lefty legislator needs some emotional frosting on that constitutional cake, then, yes. A personal anecdote can fuel that. But not a single far-left member of the MDGA is going to change their minds about this entire topic, no matter what we say. So the personalized tidbits (expressed in 60 seconds at a hearing, or expressed in an email that is deleted before it's read, or a printed letter that is filed away by an intern without any consideration) is only helpful because it feels good doing it. It's not helpful - in this state, right now - in winning enough legislative hearts and minds to make any difference. That's going to happen through the courts.
It will happen through the courts or through the polls. One or the other. Until they actually start losing seats in the General Assembly and/or losing court cases, nothing is going to happen. I have no idea why people think that 60 seconds, or even 3 minutes in front of these people, ad nauseam, with what has got to be the same arguments over and over again if 500+ people testify, is going to make a difference. At testimony #500, all the legislators, probably even the conservatives, just want to get home and in bed.

I spent two days drafting up testimony in 2013. 6 pages of writing with exhibits. Dropped off my 30 copies and saw what was sitting in that room. I seriously doubt they even read what I wrote since an entire forest was in that room. I hung around for the rally, which was rather large. Wrote my then legislators and spoke personally to Gail Bates, and FSA2013 passed. Albeit nowhere near as bad as it originally was. I felt good about what I did, until I saw the final result.

Money and time might be best spent in elections and the right litigation case(s). Whether a right can be licensed is a good one. Hoping the HQL makes it to SCOTUS. If they pass the HBAR ban, that would be another wonderful one to litigate.

Now, applying NICS to almost every gun transfer, versus just the ones from dealer to buyer, might not be the best to litigate. Depends on whether the initial NICS check required by dealers has ever been litigated, what Heller says, etc. A crapton of research needs to be done on these 2nd Amendment cases before it is decided to bring the right ones.

Sadly, Gale Baits lost the election to a liberal who is in favor of "common sense" gun control to make us all safer. She and Warren Miller have not responded to the e-mails I sent them.

Can we find liberal candidates that are pro Bill of Rights, including the 2nd Amendment? Can we find Larry Hogan at the legislative level?

If these things pass, I really do wonder what Hogan is going to do, and if he vetoes them if they will have enough votes to get them through. I know they have enough when you look at D/R, but some of those D's aren't in completely left places.
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Old March 26th, 2019, 08:53 PM #315
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Anyone have intel on the status of this bill? I have this terrible feeling that it will sneak out of Committee.
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Old March 27th, 2019, 05:00 PM #316
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Anyone have intel on the status of this bill? I have this terrible feeling that it will sneak out of Committee.
It has not moved.
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 02:46 PM #317
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If this law ever pasted in the future how would the State confiscate all HBARs sold after 2013? Sounds like they could only ask for them to be turned in. Any thoughts or any presedence?
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 03:10 PM #318
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If this law ever pasted in the future how would the State confiscate all HBARs sold after 2013? Sounds like they could only ask for them to be turned in. Any thoughts or any presedence?
They most likely would not be able to confiscate them. I know people in New York that are not complying with the 2013 mess there. New York LEO's are not going door to door looking for the firearms.

Now, the next question is, if you do hold onto them, it will take some rather huge cajones to take them out of a house and to a range, hunting, etc.

The people I know in New York that are not complying are never leaving the house with the non-compliant guns. I guess they are keeping them just in case SHTF or they actually move from New York.
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 03:30 PM #319
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Though the politicians would think otherwise...it's not up to you to prove any rifle you possess was owned prior to 2013...it's incumbent on the government to prove you didn't. How they would do that would be difficult and likely illegal. They would have to inspect gun store 4473 forms which is not under state purview or try to make you present receipts...maybe even maintain books of serial numbers and production dates. None of that is likely.

The lawmakers don't care about any of that...they probably know such a law would be unenforceable. They want to tell voters they "did" something about crime and that since gun owners didn't comply willingly they need to ban all rather than just some. Never underestimate the gun control forces...even if they know a law in unenforceable and wrong headed they still want it. Once it's obvious to the uninformed public it didn't work they'll build on it and want more and more onerous and unworkable laws. They will never give up.
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 03:39 PM #320
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Though the politicians would think otherwise...it's not up to you to prove any rifle you possess was owned prior to 2013...it's incumbent on the government to prove you didn't. How they would do that would be difficult and likely illegal. They would have to inspect gun store 4473 forms which is not under state purview or try to make you present receipts...maybe even maintain books of serial numbers and production dates. None of that is likely.

The lawmakers don't care about any of that...they probably know such a law would be unenforceable. They want to tell voters they "did" something about crime and that since gun owners didn't comply willingly they need to ban all rather than just some. Never underestimate the gun control forces...even if they know a law in unenforceable and wrong headed they still want it. Once it's obvious to the uninformed public it didn't work they'll build on it and want more and more onerous and unworkable laws. They will never give up.
Um, why couldn't they just issue a subpoena to the manufacturer of the lower and ask for the manufacture date. After 10/1/2013, you get to go to prison.

The LEO investigating my wife's identity theft issued subpoenas to Victoria Secret, Sam's Club, Verizon, and a couple more corporations in Virginia and they all responded with a crap ton of documents that we received a copy of when we asked for the police report.

Yes, the state must prove that you did not possess the firearm before 10/1/2013, but it might not be as hard to do as you think it is.
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