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  • Flipz

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 11, 2010
    3,193
    Hey Flipz. Did the 27" include your muzzle device? If so, which did you use? I'm filling out a form 1 now. Also, which stock did you use?

    The 27" did not include a muzzle device as you're supposed to measure from the end of the stock (fully extended) to the tip of the muzzle. I plan on using a B5 SOPMOD Bravo stock. I got the measurement by putting the 8.2" upper on an already SBR'd lower that has the B5 stock.
     

    jvegas

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 15, 2009
    1,151
    Just got a disapproval from ATF on a Form 4 of a Daniel Defense MK18, which is measured at >29". The reason stated is "Prohibited by State law--Assault Weapon"
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    How dumb are they?

    It's legal since it's >29", so neither a copycat or ALG. It would have to be on the handgun roster however.

    The insanity continues.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    How dumb are they?

    It's legal since it's >29", so neither a copycat or ALG. It would have to be on the handgun roster however.

    The insanity continues.

    Perhaps the MSP is going to tell NFA that all new Form 4's have to have a NOT DISSAPROVED 77r with the application. This shows its not prohibited by msp and is on the roster since under 16"=handgun.
     

    jvegas

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 15, 2009
    1,151
    How dumb are they?

    It's legal since it's >29", so neither a copycat or ALG. It would have to be on the handgun roster however.

    The insanity continues.

    the plan was to submit it to the roster board while waiting on the form 4. I emailed my ATF examiner and explained that by MD law this is a pistol and therefore not banned in this configuration. waiting for a reply.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Well, that doesn't help folks in my situation. I have a Form 4 for and Engage lower I bought last June. MSP signed off on Sept 12th and received by me Sept. 29th Sent to BATF Oct 3rd. I have an MK 18 upper I was going to put on it and then MSP says SBR's have to be on the roster to transfer them. So even if Andy submits his E4 SBR to the roster board it's still illegal?

    How?

    OAL > 29" so not an AW.
    On handgun roster after Andy gets approval.

    WTF is wrong with these idiots? never mind I answered my own question.
     

    TNW

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2014
    251
    I got an "approved" email for a form 1 SBR on May 24.

    Post 10/1 Colt HBAR and greater than 29" OAL.

    It was submitted February 21 2014.
     

    4095fanatic

    Paramagic
    Dec 3, 2010
    1,036
    This shit is so confusing.....

    I'd be guessing in their eyes if just one person doesn't modify an EBR with a thingy that goes up in to an SBR because after reading stuff like this they go "screw it" and forget about submitting a Form 1, then they consider it worth it. Think of the children.
    /sarcasmoff
     

    traveller

    The one with two L
    Nov 26, 2010
    18,256
    variable
    I got an "approved" email for a form 1 SBR on May 24.

    Post 10/1 Colt HBAR and greater than 29" OAL.

    It was submitted February 21 2014.

    So now you have a HBARSBR ! (or is it a SBRHBAR ?)

    How long is your barrel with that ? Are you cutting the existing one or is there someone who builds short a hbar marked barrels ?
     

    rsj1231

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 24, 2013
    1,174
    Harford County
    I got an "approved" email for a form 1 SBR on May 24.

    Post 10/1 Colt HBAR and greater than 29" OAL.

    It was submitted February 21 2014.

    That's good news! I was planning to do the same but didn't want to buy an HBAR unless I could chop it down to make a Colt Commando look-alike with 11.5" barrel.
     

    TNW

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2014
    251
    So now you have a HBARSBR ! (or is it a SBRHBAR ?)

    How long is your barrel with that ? Are you cutting the existing one or is there someone who builds short a hbar marked barrels ?

    I'm getting the RRA 10.5 HBAR. For the SHBAR...

    That's good news! I was planning to do the same but didn't want to buy an HBAR unless I could chop it down to make a Colt Commando look-alike with 11.5" barrel.

    E-forms are the way to go.
     

    Signo

    Member
    Jul 10, 2011
    32
    Cecil County
    Guys I spent a good part of last night reading through this and have a few questions, you might have insight on. I have a small child at home a have not been keeping up as she keeps us pretty busy.

    I have a pre 10/01 stipped lower that had a Form 1 e-filed on 9/23 as a 300 blackout with 9 inch barrel and OAL is less than 29 inches. The Form 1 was approved on 12/30 before MSP started interpreting what and SBR is. Its confusing because ATF said ok them I read last night MSP says it's not.

    I have 2 other SBR that were built pre 10/01 so I have the barrel in my safe as it can legally go on any one of those Pre 10/01 SBR's so not worried there.

    The question is am I legal if I leave the Pre 10/01 lower that was post 10/01 NFA approved in its non NFA form in my safe and only swap the 9 inch barrel onto it when I am in PA shooting? I belong to a club in PA and only shoot there. I have the proper transport paper work, if anyone is wondering.

    A SBR is only a SBR when it is built with a NFA upper. When it has a greater than 16 inch barrel or no upper at all it is not and SBR even though it is still on the registry.

    I don't care about is being a SBR while its in Maryland I will just take it apart each time I come back into the state with it and the upper is ok to posses since I have the pre 10/01 approved SBR lowers.

    Any thoughts?

    It sucks because I don't want to build an SBR with OAL more than 29 inches. If I am going to pay the man I want a barrel as short as I can get.

    Edited: For grammar and punctuation.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Guys I spent a good part of last night reading through this and have a few questions, you might have insight on. I have a small child at home a have not been keeping up as she keeps us pretty busy.

    I have a pre 10/01 stipped lower that had a Form 1 e-filed on 9/23 as a 300 blackout with 9 inch barrel and OAL is less than 29 inches. The Form 1 was approved on 12/30 before MSP started interpreting what and SBR is. Its confusing because ATF said ok them I read last night MSP says it's not.

    I have 2 other SBR that were built pre 10/01 so I have the barrel in my safe as it can legally go on any one of those Pre 10/01 SBR's so not worried there.

    The question is am I legal if I leave the Pre 10/01 lower that was post 10/01 NFA approved in its non NFA form in my safe and only swap the 9 inch barrel onto it when I am in PA shooting? I belong to a club in PA and only shoot there. I have the proper transport paper work, if anyone is wondering.

    A SBR is only a SBR when it is built with a NFA upper. When it has a greater than 16 inch barrel or no upper at all it is not and SBR even though it is still on the registry.

    I don't care about is being a SBR while its in Maryland I will just take it apart each time I come back into the state with it and the upper is ok to posses since I have the pre 10/01 approved SBR lowers.

    Any thoughts?

    It sucks because I don't want to build an SBR with OAL more than 29 inches. If I am going to pay the man I want a barrel as short as I can get.

    Edited: For grammar and punctuation.

    You will have different opinions on this. I got my stamp for a 22" OAL AR and put a stock on it.
     

    bobthefisher

    Durka ninja
    Aug 18, 2010
    1,214
    Definitely not where you are!
    Guys I spent a good part of last night reading through this and have a few questions, you might have insight on. I have a small child at home a have not been keeping up as she keeps us pretty busy.

    I have a pre 10/01 stipped lower that had a Form 1 e-filed on 9/23 as a 300 blackout with 9 inch barrel and OAL is less than 29 inches. The Form 1 was approved on 12/30 before MSP started interpreting what and SBR is. Its confusing because ATF said ok them I read last night MSP says it's not.

    I have 2 other SBR that were built pre 10/01 so I have the barrel in my safe as it can legally go on any one of those Pre 10/01 SBR's so not worried there.

    The question is am I legal if I leave the Pre 10/01 lower that was post 10/01 NFA approved in its non NFA form in my safe and only swap the 9 inch barrel onto it when I am in PA shooting? I belong to a club in PA and only shoot there. I have the proper transport paper work, if anyone is wondering.

    A SBR is only a SBR when it is built with a NFA upper. When it has a greater than 16 inch barrel or no upper at all it is not and SBR even though it is still on the registry.

    I don't care about is being a SBR while its in Maryland I will just take it apart each time I come back into the state with it and the upper is ok to posses since I have the pre 10/01 approved SBR lowers.

    Any thoughts?

    It sucks because I don't want to build an SBR with OAL more than 29 inches. If I am going to pay the man I want a barrel as short as I can get.

    Edited: For grammar and punctuation.

    If it was owned/purchased before Oct 1st and you have an SBR stamp (doesn't matter when), you can do whatever you want with it... except make a machinegun. As a recommendation, you should also have the ability to readily convert it back to the description on the Form 1. Short answer... your good.
     

    Signo

    Member
    Jul 10, 2011
    32
    Cecil County
    teratos I read your post about that and you specifically came to mind when I was writing my post.

    You and I have the exact same scenario about when we filed our Form 1 and received approval. This puts us in a specific category of having ATF approval pre MSP interfering with the NFA process. I am wondering how many of us there are in this same scenario?

    My plan for the SBR in question is short term as I am trying to leave this hell hole called Maryland ASAP. I was going to wait it out, but the NFA mess has pushed me over the edge. I just want to be legal and they make it as hard as possible.
     

    Signo

    Member
    Jul 10, 2011
    32
    Cecil County
    If it was owned/purchased before Oct 1st and you have an SBR stamp (doesn't matter when), you can do whatever you want with it... except make a machinegun. As a recommendation, you should also have the ability to readily convert it back to the description on the Form 1. Short answer... your good.


    So you believe it is still a grandfathered ALG even in SBR Form? There seem to be to camps on this issue. Did I miss something from MSP that cleared all this up?

    I was reading in to the late night early morning it is possible I missed something.
     

    bobthefisher

    Durka ninja
    Aug 18, 2010
    1,214
    Definitely not where you are!
    I forgot to note, those are my opinions, and are obviously not legal advice. Although, I personally feel confidant that pre Oct 1st lowers that were registered with MSP, and then having an SBR stamp approved post Oct. 1st are completely legal. Others my have different opinions, and knowing this state, that's justified.
     

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