Production vs Limited ?

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  • Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    Didn't want to thread jack the other thread .

    Racinready300 mentioned to the effect that - The way things are going now, Limited may be a better home for ( real world stock guns ) . For Racinready or others , could y'all explain and expand on that ?
     

    gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,434
    SoMD
    NROI have been slowly easing the restrictions on what modifications are allowed in production. Pretty much all that's left are magwells and magazine capacity to differentiate the two, in some people's opinions.
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    frankly wouldn't worry about division too much. in your first year, just bring what you have, speak to the match director and they'll help you figure out what division to enter.

    the nice thing about uspsa limited division is you can load your mags up so less reloading and less stage planning and more focusing on shooting. also you can pretty much put your gear where you want (holster and mag pouches) vs generally at or behind the hips in uspsa production. if you shoot 9mm in limited division you will have a slight scoring handicap vs those shooting more powerful .40 loads. in production division there is no scoring disadvantage, so 9mm with lighter recoil and thus faster followup shots is preferred.

    bottom line again is bring what you got. use the matches as tests to see how well you and your gun & gear work together, and definitely check out everyone else's guns & gear and see what might work better for you. after at least a couple of matches, then consider changing guns & gear if needed or wanted.

    go to uspsa and idpa websites and read thru the rules, including what gun/gun types are allowed in each division, where gear must be worn, mag capacities and the like. also read thru the safety sections and disqualification sections. but generally, keep your finger outside the trigger guard unless you are actually shooting (and not reloading, fixing a jam, running to another target array) and generally keep that muzzle pointed downrange (including during running, reloads, fixing jams, etc).
     

    jimbobborg

    Oddball caliber fan
    Aug 2, 2010
    17,112
    Northern Virginia
    Maybe I should have, but I just skipped Production and went straight to Limited. I started competition shooting in 3-gun, so double-stack 1911 was basically what everyone who wasn't a sponsored shooter was using. At least with Limited, I only need to keep three magazines on me during a stage.
     

    gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,434
    SoMD
    I shoot both. Not particularly well, to be honest, but I'm getting better every year. Trying to get to B class in both soon.

    Limited makes stage planning easier but the guns are more expensive and the 2011s force you to reload your own ammo or they sometimes jam. You can get away with factory ammo with certain guns like a glock 35 or CZ tactical sport (That's what I shoot).

    Production is great to start because everyone has a gun for that division already. Factory ammo is fine. You'll need a ton of magazines and 5 on your belt. There's 3 million opinions on the best gun. No opinions are correct for you except yours...

    Beyond that, I've found its best to pick one, pick a dryfire book you like, take a class once in a while and get started. And get RO certified and work majors.
     

    Racinready300ex

    Active Member
    Jun 3, 2009
    381
    Didn't want to thread jack the other thread .

    Racinready300 mentioned to the effect that - The way things are going now, Limited may be a better home for ( real world stock guns ) . For Racinready or others , could y'all explain and expand on that ?

    I was joking......kinda. They keep changing production and while it probably doesn't matter much it changes the appearance of the division. What I mean is for new shooters it's not really a place where you'll be shooting against just other guys with basically stock guns like you might think.

    Limited is typically done with a 2011, but a CZ or Tanfo can be just as good for less $$$. You can get in it with good gun for under $1,500 (you can spend much more). The big difference is major scoring with 40, and 20 round mags. You can also use a magwell and get SAO, But that stuff doesn't matter much IMO.

    Production, used to mean a gun that form the outside was pretty much stock looking, new sights and some internal work was all that was allowed. Now you can change hammers, triggers, mag releases slide stops add a thumb rest etc. You can hog out inside the grip to create what is essentially a magwell on some guns. With the new competition built guns like the Shadow 2 weight 46 oz, and you're allowed to be 4 oz over that now so you can shoot minor out of a 50 oz gun (heavier than my limited major gun) and a fully tricked out production gun could run you about $2,000 now. Or you can run the $300 police trade in glock from your LGS. You choice. (Note: that $300 glock is a 40 you can shoot major in limited too.)

    So the only real question is do you want to reload several times per stage? If yes shoot production. Do you want to go faster, and have less reloads? Shoot Limited. Shoot what you think looks gun with a gun you like. In either division you're gun will not be the reason you loose. Well unless it's not reliable, then it can be the reason :lol2:
     

    TheRealJimDavis

    Active Member
    Jan 28, 2013
    477
    The Burnie
    If you're new and just dabbling, limited can help because of mag capacity, holster placement, etc. You can see if you like matches with three mags loaded to capacity and "running what you brung." Otherwise, if you're doing this for a season or two: Unless you have a race holster, a magnet, and serious hardware; practice reloading and stage planning, and run production. I'm sorry, but you're not gonna keep up with guys running 45 oz .40 cal 2011's and hand loads off race holsters and magnets with your glock 19. But you can see how you're faring against the other glock 19's. I like production, I feel like its a more even playing field and I lose because I suck. For the record, I'm currently running single stack cause I'm on a 1911 kick. And I will probably dabble carry optics next year. I shoot it for fun and bounce around a lot. NBD. Competition is great and it makes you much better.
     

    Racinready300ex

    Active Member
    Jun 3, 2009
    381
    If you're new and just dabbling, limited can help because of mag capacity, holster placement, etc. You can see if you like matches with three mags loaded to capacity and "running what you brung." Otherwise, if you're doing this for a season or two: Unless you have a race holster, a magnet, and serious hardware; practice reloading and stage planning, and run production. I'm sorry, but you're not gonna keep up with guys running 45 oz .40 cal 2011's and hand loads off race holsters and magnets with your glock 19. But you can see how you're faring against the other glock 19's. I like production, I feel like its a more even playing field and I lose because I suck. For the record, I'm currently running single stack cause I'm on a 1911 kick. And I will probably dabble carry optics next year. I shoot it for fun and bounce around a lot. NBD. Competition is great and it makes you much better.

    I just want to point out that race holsters and magnets make basically no difference at all. In fact I think I like kydex better. The nicest thing about my race holster is it doesn't mess up the finish on my gun.

    I've used my magnet like twice, and I see no difference in time switching from kydex to a race holster. Even from the old SS rules with the higher holster height I've gotten under .7 draws on a 5 yard bill drill.

    And like I pointed out above, in production you will be still shooting against 45+ oz guns with 2 lbs triggers.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    And like I pointed out above, in production you will be still shooting against 45+ oz guns with 2 lbs triggers.
    This is why I keep feeling the irresistible draw of going steel-framed DA/SA, even though my Glock 34s do reasonable work. That first pull sucks a bit, but everything else after it is just awesome.

    Anyways, hot take: if you want to start using full mags, you're better off going to Carry Optics than Limited at this point, unless you're already shooting .40S&W.

    Speculating about the far future, I personally suspect we'll see the divisions pared down into Production, Production-10, Carry Optics, and Open, with the minor/major PF distinctions removed and replaced with just a PF floor. I often see Limited just used for guys who want to run their Production guns with full magazines these days, at least at the club matches I attend, and there's no reason that Production couldn't be modified to deal with that. Carry Optics would morph into some of what Limited is currently (plus slide-mounted optics, maybe with magwell-size restrictions), and Open would be as it is now.
     

    Racinready300ex

    Active Member
    Jun 3, 2009
    381
    This is why I keep feeling the irresistible draw of going steel-framed DA/SA, even though my Glock 34s do reasonable work. That first pull sucks a bit, but everything else after it is just awesome.

    At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter that much. Everyone worries about soft and flat. But really all that matters is the sight returns to POA and you are comfortable with it. Getting the sight to return is more about the shooter than the gun.

    Find something you like, train your ass off.
     

    BigT5g

    Ultimate Member
    May 12, 2014
    1,442
    Dayton MD
    Like others have said shoot the gun you enjoy in its appropriate division. The only other advice I have is only to shoot 1 division a season. Commit to it and train hard. If you want to shoot another gun/division wait till next season and have at it.
     

    Swearengen

    Active Member
    Nov 13, 2012
    199
    Baltimore Co.
    Doesn't really matter which division you start in. Pick whichever division fits your gun best.

    Production: more mag changes, more complicated stage planning

    Limited: scoring advantage, less reloads, faster
     

    photoracer

    Competition Shooter
    Oct 22, 2010
    3,318
    West Virginia
    I started in Limited because that was the gun I had, a Bul M-5 double-stack 1911 (was actually an IPSC Limited 10 gun in 9x23mm which was legal before they changed the class to favor .40 (and now 357Sig also). I liked that I could use full race holsters in Limited, just no big stick mags. Later I had an Open STI built.
     

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