Why gun rallies are pointless

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    eruby

    Confederate Jew
    MDS Supporter
    I asked a while back how to join/follow Patriot Picket without Facebook. Never got a response.

    I do want to get more active, but my life situation at the moment does not really permit that. Without revealing too much on a public board to dox myself, I could explain why in private.

    clingy - if you see this I will make you the same offer I made to another member:

    Maryland Shooters is having a pig roast event on Saturday, May 5, not far from BWI airport. Some members are travelling from as far North Carolina to attend.

    The event is from 11am - 5pm, and was a very good time last year. You cannot see the thread, as it is the Water Cooler forum, for which one need 50 posts to view N/A Here is the thread link:

    https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=221341



    If you can make it, I will pay for your admission ($20), though feel free to bring a side dish if you'd like.

    This would be a great opportunity to introduce yourself to us, and we to you. We are truly a friendly and welcoming bunch, but we are wary of possible Maryland government trolls (and I am NOT thinking that of you).

    I would lay my life down for several members here.

    Let me know if you can attend the party on May 5, and I will send you details and directions. N/A

    Eric
    eruby
     

    Rack&Roll

    R.I.P
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    22,304
    Bunkerville, MD
    I wrote on this a while back, last year I think, do you have any idea just how BAD the optics are on this? Anti 2A groups pitch you guys as armed revolutionaries and Jesus Christ you’re showing up in kit.

    Want a better way of doing things? How about this. MANDATORY banning of all camo, slogan shirts, cold dead hands ball caps and hats at ANY rally.

    Dress standard, shirt (ironed), a tie, get a clip on if you have to. Shave, ditch the ZZ top beard or stay home. Non-descriptive everyday business/casual jacket.

    You dress like a normal person that you are supposed to be and what 80% of the general public, you know the "people you are trying to convince to some to your side" THINK is a normal person. They see the Anti’s dancing around with pink ***** hats on what do you think they think of your airsoft gear?

    ID each other; so everyone can wear a "blank" blaze orange ball cap. It stands out in pictures to show numbers, hell carry and extra just to wave around, it makes the press pictures look better, more people. Get better sloganeering, ditch the don’t tread on me shit and go with something like “I’m responsible for my own life, let me be”. At least that would open up a dialog with a semi-intelligent reporter for a meaningful dialog and not visual window dressing on a news article.

    Arm everyone with one of these, they are cheap and the bomb. Have several people with them to film the anti’s getting in your face. ANTIFA films EVERYTHING for use as propaganda.

    https://www.amazon.com/Crosstour-Underwater-Waterproof-170°Wide-angle-Rechargeable/dp/B074319MZZ

    Find someone willing to take the hits. Yeah you heard me someone volunteers to get beat up, it’s easy to incite a nutcase to go over the edge, let them take some hits, get it on tape and get them out WITHOUT retaliation. Look!! Film at 11, crazy anti-gun demonstrator beats up nice looking gentleman Joe the plumber out trying to speak about his freedoms. BTW wear a cup.

    Options. Do something different, even leaving the state is an action. I’ve been here since 1990 and oh those rally’s have done so much. Yes we have lost less each year tell me what has been gained.

    Lastly want to ding Kit, you don’t know WTF you’re talking about then as she runs in a rare crowd.

    Fire away, you’ve been doing well so far.

    http://www.patriotpickle.com/

    Whoops sorry

    https://patriotpicket.org/

    Hey mom look at the webpage with all the crazy people with assault rifles.


    Hahaha...your significant other been on a sex strike for the last week?

    And you should change your screen name from trailman to grayman.

    Trailman sounds too ruggedly outdoorsy, independent and freedom lovin’, you know, like a gun nut.

    How’s that Sunday suit—for hiking on the trail—workin’ for ya?

     

    trailman

    Active Member
    Nov 15, 2011
    631
    Frederick
    Hahaha...your significant other been on a sex strike for the last week?

    And you should change your screen name from trailman to grayman.

    Trailman sounds too ruggedly outdoorsy, independent and freedom lovin’, you know, like a gun nut.

    How’s that Sunday suit—for hiking on the trail—workin’ for ya?



    Just for you, seems to prove the point.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect


    Funny. Someone pointed out to me that this thread is just like liberal anti-gunners, ANTIFA, Bloomberg Moms, attacking those that don't agree with their monolithic worldview. I mean Maryland is a such bastion of gun rights now, all due to the stalwart efforts of some seriously kitted out badasses who rally to challenge ANTIFA brats and go to raise their rifles Red Dawn-style at the state capitol sometimes. Yup that's where we live, don't try a different tactic. We are making so much progress. :sad20:
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,988
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    I wrote on this a while back, last year I think, do you have any idea just how BAD the optics are on this? Anti 2A groups pitch you guys as armed revolutionaries and Jesus Christ you’re showing up in kit.

    Want a better way of doing things? How about this. MANDATORY banning of all camo, slogan shirts, cold dead hands ball caps and hats at ANY rally.

    Dress standard, shirt (ironed), a tie, get a clip on if you have to. Shave, ditch the ZZ top beard or stay home. Non-descriptive everyday business/casual jacket.

    You dress like a normal person that you are supposed to be and what 80% of the general public, you know the "people you are trying to convince to some to your side" THINK is a normal person. They see the Anti’s dancing around with pink ***** hats on what do you think they think of your airsoft gear?

    ID each other; so everyone can wear a "blank" blaze orange ball cap. It stands out in pictures to show numbers, hell carry and extra just to wave around, it makes the press pictures look better, more people. Get better sloganeering, ditch the don’t tread on me shit and go with something like “I’m responsible for my own life, let me be”. At least that would open up a dialog with a semi-intelligent reporter for a meaningful dialog and not visual window dressing on a news article.

    Arm everyone with one of these, they are cheap and the bomb. Have several people with them to film the anti’s getting in your face. ANTIFA films EVERYTHING for use as propaganda.

    https://www.amazon.com/Crosstour-Underwater-Waterproof-170°Wide-angle-Rechargeable/dp/B074319MZZ

    Find someone willing to take the hits. Yeah you heard me someone volunteers to get beat up, it’s easy to incite a nutcase to go over the edge, let them take some hits, get it on tape and get them out WITHOUT retaliation. Look!! Film at 11, crazy anti-gun demonstrator beats up nice looking gentleman Joe the plumber out trying to speak about his freedoms. BTW wear a cup.

    Options. Do something different, even leaving the state is an action. I’ve been here since 1990 and oh those rally’s have done so much. Yes we have lost less each year tell me what has been gained.

    Lastly want to ding Kit, you don’t know WTF you’re talking about then as she runs in a rare crowd.

    Fire away, you’ve been doing well so far.



    So then we will see you and your crew of nattily dressed men and women in blank orange ball caps this Saturday? Lawyers Mall, 2pm.

    I'm sure you don't just sit back and criticize others, you are a true leader and are willing to show the rest of us how it's done.
     

    trailman

    Active Member
    Nov 15, 2011
    631
    Frederick
    trailman: as an 11-er, were you the guy who told everybody attending the rallies before FSA2013 to wear only business casual?

    Don't know what an 11-er is sorry, I'll assume something derogatory at this point in the thread by now, but the message probably yes.

    When we worked issues way before and during 2013 yes. When I worked legislation yes, would you go to see your Delegate or Senator dressed like you just came out of the field? No. Suit and tie, yes. Hearings; shirt tie and slacks yes. Would you dress in camo and kit for a job interview, no. When you trying to impress an unknowing and uncaring public to influence them to your side why would you? Maybe its my age or my upbringing I don't know. Optics is everything.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,988
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Don't know what an 11-er is sorry, I'll assume something derogatory at this point in the thread by now, but the message probably yes.

    When we worked issues way before and during 2013 yes. When I worked legislation yes, would you go to see your Delegate or Senator dressed like you just came out of the field? No. Suit and tie, yes. Hearings; shirt tie and slacks yes. Would you dress in camo and kit for a job interview, no. When you trying to impress an unknowing and uncaring public to influence them to your side why would you? Maybe its my age or my upbringing I don't know. Optics is everything.



    Please post up some pics of your crew in their shirt and tie at the last rally. I'm trying to get the dress code straight.
     

    trailman

    Active Member
    Nov 15, 2011
    631
    Frederick
    So then we will see you and your crew of nattily dressed men and women in blank orange ball caps this Saturday? Lawyers Mall, 2pm.

    I'm sure you don't just sit back and criticize others, you are a true leader and are willing to show the rest of us how it's done.

    Yeah. Sorry. Have fun, feel good, please don't contribute to embarrassing pictures. I did my time, made my accomplishments, burnt myself out. I have two bills to my name involving hunting and firearms issues and I can assure you none of it has to do with rally's or other hoohah. Took three years of dedicated work. What's your cred?

    As Blaster sad they the politicians don't give a fvck about the rally's or 2013 would have scared them. My Senator told me then that an old timer said there wasn't that many people down there for the civil rights rallies in the 60's.

    But hey, whatever makes you feel good. :) Go for it.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,988
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Yeah. Sorry. Have fun, feel good, please don't contribute to embarrassing pictures. I did my time, made my accomplishments, burnt myself out. I have two bills to my name involving hunting and firearms issues and I can assure you none of it has to do with rally's or other hoohah. Took three years of dedicated work. What's your cred?

    As Blaster sad they the politicians don't give a fvck about the rally's or 2013 would have scared them. My Senator told me then that an old timer said there wasn't that many people down there for the civil rights rallies in the 60's.

    But hey, whatever makes you feel good. :) Go for it.



    If rallies are pointless why do you give a flying fvch what anyone wears to them?
     

    KitPerez

    Member
    Apr 10, 2018
    1
    I'm Kit Perez, the author of the article that started the ruckus. I wasn't going to reply, since I don't normally respond to forum threads where my articles are getting discussed, but I think there are some worthwhile things to point out for those who are inclined to listen.

    In order for an action, whether it's an open or underground one, to be effective, it has to have a goal. "Fighting for our rights" is not a goal, it's a means to a goal. I'm sure some of you have read both the classic works on resistance, and some of the lesser known ones as well, so this shouldn't be a point of contention. Each action taken has to have a smart, actionable goal that is both realistic and attainable. "Stopping anti-gunners" is not in that category.

    Since I'm sure at least some of you have also read a lot on information operations and guerrilla warfare, then you probably are also aware that public support is the one thing you absolutely MUST have in order to win your overarching war. That's not even a negotiable point--it's Resistance 101.

    So, now that we can all agree that you need both solid, smart goals and public support, let's look at what the public actually thinks of gun rallies that people attend while kitted out like they engaged in a drunken bender in a military surplus store. Do you get that public support? No. Do you win more middle ground people to your side? Not nearly as many as you could if you chose to look professional, well-educated on your particular issue, and acted like calm, firm adults. There is no way around that.

    Secondly, in order to be effective, rallies and actions need to do something other than what is considered routine. Look at the rallies in the Pac NW over the last 4 years. Mass disobedience. Lists of grievances. Burning in effigy. Nullifying laws.

    There CAN be a good reason for a rally, especially if it's hiding operations by a more underground section. Thing is, those don't really happen much, if at all. 99% of them are same-old, same-old. Signs, speeches, yelling, "challenges" of anti-gunners, and just generally getting together in public.

    One last thing--Is Maryland a bastion of gun rights now?
     

    Rack&Roll

    R.I.P
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    22,304
    Bunkerville, MD
    “Why Internet Articles Are Pointless”

    Blah, blah, blah, blah, so easy to do, blah, blah, blah, feel good about myself, blah, blah, blah, fun to debate, blah, blah, blah.

    I got my start in activism by attending rallies. It was the launch pad for networking with others to
    give a voice for our side.

    We have been on the cover of that Leftist darling little publication, the New York Times, TWICE in the last couple of years. Here was the last time when the Left staged a Die-In after Parkland. Look and you will find the “other side activism” that gets discussions going.

    Rallies are where we take the measure of folks to find trusted partners to engage in activism that has risks. Our Patriot Picket group started with two, and now includes dozens of commited people who demonstrate regularly. We will be rallying again Saturday to recruit more people.

    Labeling an activity as pointless when it is the starting line and not the finish line is “pointless”.
     

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    Aventus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Sep 5, 2016
    778
    When I originally posted in defense of the OP, it was simply to support a discussion on the points of the article. Agree or disagree wasn’t my concern but debating new ideas in the 2A fight was my real motivation.

    Rallies are not my thing and I suspect it’s the same for most. The Patriot Picket group however has a passion in what they do and I say great. I was hoping to find that same passion in myself and contribute in another manner. I'm sure many others would also welcome that. Unfortunately, this thread became an embarrassing, cat fight.

    If we are trying to influence people with the goal of winning the 2A battle, we don’t stand a chance with this threads approach. If anyone would like to continue this topic in a more meaningful manner, I’m all in. If it's more cat fighting, sorry I’m not responding.

    Still looking forward to meeting everyone at the Pig Roast in 4 weeks! Peace,
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,988
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    When I originally posted in defense of the OP, it was simply to support a discussion on the points of the article. Agree or disagree wasn’t my concern but debating new ideas in the 2A fight was my real motivation.

    Rallies are not my thing and I suspect it’s the same for most. The Patriot Picket group however has a passion in what they do and I say great. I was hoping to find that same passion in myself and contribute in another manner. I'm sure many others would also welcome that. Unfortunately, this thread became an embarrassing, cat fight.

    If we are trying to influence people with the goal of winning the 2A battle, we don’t stand a chance with this threads approach. If anyone would like to continue this topic in a more meaningful manner, I’m all in. If it's more cat fighting, sorry I’m not responding.

    Still looking forward to meeting everyone at the Pig Roast in 4 weeks! Peace,



    The quoted piece by the OP was heavy on criticism but low on quality alternatives except possibly the book recommendation and even then there was no expounding on any ideas that might be contained in the book and I was going to sit this thread out until the criticisms of the PP and the dress of the militia groups started.

    The PP doesn't organize or hold rallies with two exceptions. One was last fall when Captain Berz took his ball and went home, and the other was a couple of years ago when we had our "Deplorables Rally" which was really just another time out on the bricks with a theme that we had fun poking the Mikes with.

    The same criticisms of rallies by the quoted post could also be said about emailing and calling legislators or any other form of activism short of walking into the critters' offices with bags of cash. All are tools in the box to be used.
     

    Beach Runner

    Member
    Mar 20, 2018
    90
    The anti-2A rallies seem to produce enough legislation. If we do not rally to show our commitment and numbers I think we will just get steamrollered.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,988
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Problem being....has any rally/ protest ever changed anything?


    Sure they do. The kids at Howard U got some action with their occupation of the administration building just a week or so ago.

    One individual rally may not directly change something, but the awareness brought to the issue can and does energize folks to vote and I'll give you a personal example.

    Last October after the Harford County triple killing by the 47 time felon the PP had an impromptu candlight vigil down on the bricks. An acquaintance of mine saw me on the news and sent me an email with some questions. After some back and forth he has told me that he is now more politically active and has also gotten his family involved. He and his wife both just got their HQL's and recently purchased their first handgun and are going to be solid 2A voters in November.
     
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