Building cheaper than buying in this environment?

JerseyMike · Mar 21, 2020

Tl;dr in today’s environment and the foreseeable future better to build or buy an AR? Should I take the plunge and start with an 80% lower?

I had planned to just go to engage in rockville and buy a cheap/midrange 5.56 AR, but then the virus panic hit and pretty much shut that idea down. Kicking myself for waiting but I didn’t want to charge it & was waiting for a settlement check to come in.

Once the immediate panic settles will component/build part prices skyrocket as well, given this is an election year and lingering Coronavirus fear? How did it play out in 2013/2016?

I’ve been considering ordering a lower and then building myself, but I don’t want to deal with the hoard to pick it up from an FFL right now. I have zero skills but have no issue following guides/youtube videos, but I’m a little uneasy about messing with an 80% lower since I have zero experience with rifles and only basic tools at home.

I’m looking for a general purpose rifle, something I can hunt with down the road (will start with small game and a .22 then move up) and use for defense. While the assault weapons ban failed in MD this year I don’t want to wait and miss the opportunity to own one. .300 AAC blk seems cool because you can suppress it with subsonic rounds, but ammo cost is a little steep especially in the immediate future and every guide I’ve read online says to go 5.56 and not .300blk.

fidelity · Mar 21, 2020

It took about 2 years post Newtown shooting for the AR-15 market to build sufficient inventory such that prices were close to prepanic levels ... and maybe more 2 years when there were more good deals on the mid premium rifles, like Colts. I think Ruger and S&W will be faster in getting their AR-15 products out this time (Ruger didn't have the current AR 5.56 line then). Maybe Colt will start building again for the civilian market.

22LR ammo took the longest time to come back in decent stock after the panic. Years. Supposedly CCI and other major manufacturers have greater production capacity these days. I think 223/5.56 won't take long to replenish. Maybe it will be 35-40 cpr at the beginning. Also, being able to get imported ammo helps (which could change if Trump loses reelection).

A Ruger 10/22 for $300 or less or a S&W 15-22 for $425 or less would be great 22LR rifles to start with.

jimbobborg · Mar 22, 2020

Most AR sales are newbs buying complete guns. I saw multiple stripped lowers and LPKs and such at a local gun store yesterday. Joe Bob's seems well stocked, ie very few parts not in stock. This is probably a better time to build than buy.

outrider58 · Mar 22, 2020

jimbobborg said:
Most AR sales are newbs buying complete guns. I saw multiple stripped lowers and LPKs and such at a local gun store yesterday. Joe Bob's seems well stocked, ie very few parts not in stock. This is probably a better time to build than buy.

Agreed

DutchV · Mar 22, 2020

Building is cheaper, since you don't need to make a profit and there's no 11% excise tax on parts.

It also get you a better rifle. You aren't likely to skip greasing your own barrel nut just to save a little time. And you can get better parts. You don't get a great barrel in a rifle that retails for $700.

JerseyMike · Mar 22, 2020

fidelity said:
It took about 2 years post Newtown shooting for the AR-15 market to build sufficient inventory such that prices were close to prepanic levels ... and maybe more 2 years when there were more good deals on the mid premium rifles, like Colts. I think Ruger and S&W will be faster in getting their AR-15 products out this time (Ruger didn't have the current AR 5.56 line then). Maybe Colt will start building again for the civilian market.

22LR ammo took the longest time to come back in decent stock after the panic. Years. Supposedly CCI and other major manufacturers have greater production capacity these days. I think 223/5.56 won't take long to replenish. Maybe it will be 35-40 cpr at the beginning. Also, being able to get imported ammo helps (which could change if Trump loses reelection).

A Ruger 10/22 for $300 or less or a S&W 15-22 for $425 or less would be great 22LR rifles to start with.

Good info thanks. I actually don’t plan on using the AR at first and was going to buy a 10-22 to learn rifle basics and use for small game hunting. I don’t want to sleep on the AR now and then be stuck with nothing in a year or 2 after MD bans them or some goofy “featureless” California crap.

rseymorejr · Mar 22, 2020

Buy a Ruger 10/22 and a bunch of 22 ammunition. Then sign up for an Appleseed

SkiPatrolDude · Mar 22, 2020

I’d buy an inexpensive lower, complete upper, and a lower parts kit. Done right and you can have a good mil spec set up for around $500. Add a few hundred and you can add some fancier magpul furniture.

Palmetto State Armory has a few HBAR uppers for sale.

Alternatively, Hanover Armory near BWI builds their own complete AR pattern rifles - MD compliant.

Since they build and sell completes, I think you’ll find that you have more options available, since they can market and advertise their builds as HBAR. Don’t go in there asking for them to stamp a pencil barrel or lightweight barrel as heavy, though.

They make their own billet lowers in house and also have their own forged lowers. My billet lower from them has the absolute best lower to upper fit among my 4 AR’s, which include a Daniel Defense, Spikes, and Colt.

Magnumite · Mar 25, 2020

You may consider sooner rather than later. Already Brownells, MidwayUSA, etc. have statements of heavy workloads. Prices will go up. So it becomes a question of how long you want to wait.

You can buy off the shelf HBAR equipped AR’s for $500-$700 which on one end is good and other end pretty depending on what is already on the gun.

ted76 · Mar 25, 2020

Buying and milling out an AR 80% is not really worth it after buying the jigs and tools, for a single build.
Buy a stripped ($50-$75+) lower or a built lower ($125-~) for a home build AR. The sky's the limit for cost for the rest of the parts.
But you should be able to build a AR for $500-$750, if you shop for parts on sale. I have had good success with Anderson Lowers and upper for a lower cost build.

travistheone · Mar 26, 2020

just make sure that you buy quality components. 80% of malfunctions while shooting that I have witnessed are from homebuilt guns done poorly. the other 20 is from bad mags, although 12 dollar PMAGS have generally solved that problem.

Vile Shadow · Mar 29, 2020

DutchV said:
Building is cheaper, since you don't need to make a profit and there's no 11% excise tax on parts.

It also get you a better rifle. You aren't likely to skip greasing your own barrel nut just to save a little time. And you can get better parts. You don't get a great barrel in a rifle that retails for $700.

Ive done good builds for that price with good parts

Id love to know who wound up with the one I sold to Mopar92 and if its still kickin

jrumann59 · Mar 30, 2020

Building is not necessarily cheaper but you end up with a rifle you want and do not need to change parts on because you "settled" for one off the shelf.

SkiPatrolDude · Mar 30, 2020

Build. Or buy complete components and put together.

With the deals PSA and other manufacturers are running now, you can build a quality AR for around $500 - $750. By quality I mean chrome lined or nitride barrel, good bolt carrier group, mil spec parts. You start to go up in $ when you add better stock, handguards, grips, and optics, but you can still easily keep the total package under $1000 for a really good and durable rig.

One thing I have learned the hard way with building my own is tolerance stacking. Mil spec manufacturers build within plus/minus a few thousandths for each part (lower and upper receiver for example). This is done so that you can swap parts easily without fear of it being way too loose or so tight it doesn't fit at all.

That being said, I prefer my set ups on the tighter side. There is provenly nothing wrong with a loose fitting upper-lower, but I just prefer tighter. It will loosen up over time with use anyway.

The only way to guarantee a tight fit is to have a handful of lowers and uppers and to try them all out and find the best fit. Most people don't do this, and are ultimately OK with however the fit turns out.

There are a few brands like Rock River Arms (RRA), who are known for very tight fitting uppers and lowers (too tight in some instances). I have found that I can get reliably tight fitting components with a RRA upper or lower, coupled to a random upper or lower from another manufacturer.

When I build for friends we usually order a complete RRA lower (can select components on their website which is cool), for around $240-$350. And then we will buy a complete PSA upper, BCG and charging handle (if the complete upper doesn't come with BCG and CH).

This usually results in a very nice fitting complete rifle, with little to no actual building, for $750 or less. Then we'll throw a $250 red dot and BUIS and they're G2G for under $1,100.

fabsroman · Apr 5, 2020

SkiPatrolDude said:
Build. Or buy complete components and put together.

With the deals PSA and other manufacturers are running now, you can build a quality AR for around $500 - $750. By quality I mean chrome lined or nitride barrel, good bolt carrier group, mil spec parts. You start to go up in $ when you add better stock, handguards, grips, and optics, but you can still easily keep the total package under $1000 for a really good and durable rig.

One thing I have learned the hard way with building my own is tolerance stacking. Mil spec manufacturers build within plus/minus a few thousandths for each part (lower and upper receiver for example). This is done so that you can swap parts easily without fear of it being way too loose or so tight it doesn't fit at all.

That being said, I prefer my set ups on the tighter side. There is provenly nothing wrong with a loose fitting upper-lower, but I just prefer tighter. It will loosen up over time with use anyway.

The only way to guarantee a tight fit is to have a handful of lowers and uppers and to try them all out and find the best fit. Most people don't do this, and are ultimately OK with however the fit turns out.

There are a few brands like Rock River Arms (RRA), who are known for very tight fitting uppers and lowers (too tight in some instances). I have found that I can get reliably tight fitting components with a RRA upper or lower, coupled to a random upper or lower from another manufacturer.

When I build for friends we usually order a complete RRA lower (can select components on their website which is cool), for around $240-$350. And then we will buy a complete PSA upper, BCG and charging handle (if the complete upper doesn't come with BCG and CH).

This usually results in a very nice fitting complete rifle, with little to no actual building, for $750 or less. Then we'll throw a $250 red dot and BUIS and they're G2G for under $1,100.

They make something for the slop between lower and upper receiver. It is called an "accuwedge".

fabsroman · Apr 5, 2020

OP,

Just buy a lower and start accumulating parts to build your rifle. I just built one up this weekend. Lost a stupid detent spring during the build. Thing shot out and I could not find it for the life of me, but Brian at South Carroll Sporting Goods took care of me and the gun is up and running.

I do my builds little by little. First, I finish out the lower. Test out some triggers and see what you like best. When NateIOU was working at Engage, I stopped over there and he let me try some triggers from Geissele and Hiperfire. I ended up liking the Hiperfire better, so I spend $250 on each trigger for my AR guns. I like the Magpul stocks, so that does not kill me. I like the expensive barrels and handguards though and the somewhat expensive optics.

Most parts are still in stock to build. I think most gun aficionados in Maryland filed their safes between 2013 and 2016. I know I am not in the market to buy a gun right now and none of my brothers and sisters feel under-gunned for this pandemic. My brother in-law wrote me the other day to ask if 5,000 rounds of .223 would be enough. Told him the only way it would not be enough is if the survivors of Covid-19 turn into zombies in 6 months.

So, my advice again is to buy a lower and go from there if you have any mechanical ability at all. If not, buy a complete gun. Think I saw one on the shelf at South Carroll Sporting Goods this weekend.

fabsroman · Apr 7, 2020

Here you go, start out with a stripped lower for $49.95 and then buy parts for it as you can afford it:

https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/An...286910993&mc_cid=2128a382c6&mc_eid=4b416c5a93

Wonder what "machined from forged 7075" means. So, is it a "billet" lower or a "forged" lower?

If I was in the market, I doubt I would hesitate to buy something like this. Only hesitation might be the transfer fee versus finding it at a Maryland FFL in the first place.

jimbobborg · Apr 8, 2020

For most of you in Maryland, just go to a local shop and pick up a stripped lower or three. Then you actually "own an AR" prior to any mischief your government may come up with.

K31 · Apr 8, 2020

I suggest keeping an eye on Industry Partners sub-forums. They seem to regularly get in complete rifles and don't seem to charge bend-over panic prices for them unless the cost to them increased as well. Some will hold them if you call.

Gtrnn · Apr 10, 2020

Don't forget to factor in the gunsmith tools required to build properly. Many tried to get by with improvised version of what is in the garage and some regreted that decision. They do make it a lot easier and in many ways safer but it is a one time investment

Building cheaper than buying in this environment?

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