29 inch rule

erwos · Nov 4, 2015

HappyCamper said:
Would a hinged buttplate in the open position (like the M1A stocks) count towards the length? If someone made one for the AR platform?

I investigated this once, and it seemed like the answer was no. I am still skeptical, so you can always ask the BATFE:
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=50&t=436221

It would be a very nice workaround if you could get it approved.

cap6888 · Nov 4, 2015

Are you guys ranking about the shoulder thingy that goes up?

SneakySh0rty · Nov 5, 2015

Hawkeye said:
How much longer than a "regular" stock is the ACS-L?

I've been thinking about a .300BLK pistol to eventually SBR. There are plenty of 10.5" options out there, but something in the 8.5" to 9" range (which is what .300 was designed for if I've got my facts straight) would be more attractive; however we run into the stupid 29" rule at that point. If I could do it with an A5 tube and an ACS-L that's fine, but I don't love that stock, and would like a VLTOR or other stock as an option.

I about to build what you just described. I have the stamp, I just havent gotten around getting my lower engraved. Ill let you know once I get everything together.

On a side note: The a5 buffer tube states anything else besides the a5 buffer system will damage the gun? Anyone else tried running a different set up in that tube? I was thinking either that flatwire stuff or a jp silent spring set up.

outrider58 · Nov 5, 2015

erwos said:
I investigated this once, and it seemed like the answer was no. I am still skeptical, so you can always ask the BATFE:
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=50&t=436221

It would be a very nice workaround if you could get it approved.

Don't folders negate the ability to use muzzle devices?

OCSlacker · Nov 5, 2015

screamingeagle said:
Picking up a LWRC 8 1/2 sbr pistol this weekend.I did not know about the 29 inch rule pertaining to rifle length. Going to d my tax stamp to add stock.

My question is does LWRC sell a buffer tube long enough to make it 29 inches.From my info the standard LWRC tube with Magpul stock is about 2 1/2 inches too short.

ScreamingEagle, did you buy your 8.5 upper yet? If not, shoot me a PM. I have one that's unfired that I'm trying to get rid of.

BigDaddy · Nov 5, 2015

outrider58 said:
Don't folders negate the ability to use muzzle devices?

Depends what you mean by muzzle device. Flash suppressors are banned with the folding stock (i.e, they trigger the copy cat rule). Nate of Engage, made a case for silencers being flash suppressors as well in post #7
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=170811

Others have claimed muzzle brakes are flash suppressors. I think that is a stretch.

outrider58 · Nov 5, 2015

BigDaddy said:
Depends what you mean by muzzle device. Flash suppressors are banned with the folding stock (i.e, they trigger the copy cat rule). Nate of Engage, made a case for silencers being flash suppressors as well in post #7
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=170811

Others have claimed muzzle brakes are flash suppressors. I think that is a stretch.

I think the state considers all brakes, flash hiders, and sound suppressors, flash suppressors by their inherent nature. We've had this discussion before here and that's how I remember it but... :shrug:

teratos · Nov 5, 2015

outrider58 said:
I think the state considers all brakes, flash hiders, and sound suppressors, flash suppressors by their inherent nature. We've had this discussion before here and that's how I remember it but...

Brakes are not flash suppressors. Their purpose is not to suppress a flash, they were not designed for that purpose.

outrider58 · Nov 5, 2015

teratos said:
Brakes are not flash suppressors. Their purpose is not to suppress a flash, they were not designed for that purpose.

Understood. Wish I could remember the thread. I'm not known for my memory but, it seemed to me the consensus was, 'if it alters the flash, it's a flash hider'. Are you saying that a muzzle brake is not considered one of the "evil three" by Maryland?

Ala Nate;

If what everyone is saying in this thread were true, SBRs could be less than 29" in OAL. Under current interpretation by MSP, an SBR can be a copycat rifle. As such, you can't have a folding stock and flash hider on your SBR. That includes suppressors. Under MD law, a flash Suppressor is :

(G) “FLASH SUPPRESSOR” MEANS A DEVICE THAT FUNCTIONS, OR IS INTENDED TO FUNCTION, TO PERCEPTIBLY REDUCE OR REDIRECT MUZZLE FLASH FROM THE SHOOTER’S FIELD OF VISION.

I think it's pretty clear a suppressor would be a flash suppressor for purposes of the copycat provisions.

But is a muzzle brake(my question, not Nate's)?

BigDaddy · Nov 5, 2015

We tend to remember the last thing we read, the best. I have no doubt somebody here said the MSP might call a brake a flash suppressor.

If you have ever fired a brake at dusk, you know it does not:

PERCEPTIBLY REDUCE OR REDIRECT MUZZLE FLASH FROM THE SHOOTER’S FIELD OF VISION.

outrider58 · Nov 5, 2015

BigDaddy said:
We tend to remember the last thing we read, the best. I have no doubt somebody here said the MSP might call a brake a flash suppressor.

If you have ever fired a brake at dusk, you know it does not:

PERCEPTIBLY REDUCE OR REDIRECT MUZZLE FLASH FROM THE SHOOTER’S FIELD OF VISION.

As a shooter, I understand the difference but, let's remember who wrote these laws.

swinokur · Nov 5, 2015

MD 4-301

(e) (1) “Copycat weapon” means:
(i) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that can accept a detachable magazine and has any two of the following:
1. a folding stock;
2. a grenade launcher or flare launcher; or
3. a flash suppressor;
(ii) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds;
(iii) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 29 inches;
(iv) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds;
(v) a semiautomatic shotgun that has a folding stock; or
(vi) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
(2) “Copycat weapon” does not include an assault long gun or an assault pistol.

all of the above define copycat. 2 features make it banned as well as <29" OAL. separate definitions.An SBR cannot be less than 29 inches.

ironpony · Nov 7, 2015

Id be surprised if there is not a spreadsheet somewhere listing various items and their lengths. Butt stocks, buffer tubes, pin able barrel attachments, etc to give an OAL. On the other hand the 29" thing is just MD.

rayrevolver · Nov 7, 2015

SneakySh0rty said:
On a side note: The a5 buffer tube states anything else besides the a5 buffer system will damage the gun? Anyone else tried running a different set up in that tube? I was thinking either that flatwire stuff or a jp silent spring set up.

Use an A5 buffer and any RIFLE spring and you should be fine. Sprinco Green is an option.

outrider58 · Nov 7, 2015

SneakySh0rty said:
On a side note: The a5 buffer tube states anything else besides the a5 buffer system will damage the gun? Anyone else tried running a different set up in that tube? I was thinking either that flatwire stuff or a jp silent spring set up.

I don't see why not. The JPs come with an extender for rifle length tubes and Tubbs work in both rifle and carbine length tubes. I would not rely on the warranty if something should go wrong though.

Pinecone · Nov 8, 2015

BigDaddy said:
We tend to remember the last thing we read, the best. I have no doubt somebody here said the MSP might call a brake a flash suppressor.

If you have ever fired a brake at dusk, you know it does not:

PERCEPTIBLY REDUCE OR REDIRECT MUZZLE FLASH FROM THE SHOOTER’S FIELD OF VISION.

It depends on the specific brake.

I agree, most brakes do not, but a particular one might.

And the wording in the law is, if it does reduce flash, it is a flash suppressor.

29 inch rule

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