SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

swinokur · Jul 29, 2012

Merlin said:
Esq,

Do you think my shopping bag is to much to soon?

You'll need your permit

esqappellate · Jul 29, 2012

Dklo said:
But seeing as how the overwhelming majority of the country (including much of CA4s jurisdiction) does not have G&S for their permit systems, is it really that cutting edge? Like Judge Legg said, the evidence doesnt point in either direction in terms of harm or benefit to public safety. Do you really think they will issue a stay?

I think the stay is a close question. The state has a bit of an uphill climb with Judge Legg's excellent reasoning on the merits and on the stay. That other states don't require G&S is neither here nor there on whether MD's requirement is unconstitutional -- states get to make different judgment calls and courts don't sit to review the wisdom of such judgment calls. That said, the fact that 41 states are shall issue without blood in the streets is a huge plus for us precisely because those states will give the CA4 reassurance on that score, just as it did for Judge Legg. Still, it is easy for a motions panel just to punt to the merits panel and not change the status quo.

Mike OTDP · Jul 29, 2012

Unfortunately, I fear the stay will be issued - for just that reason.

All the more reason to push for a Federal law equivalent to the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act.

Nobody · Jul 29, 2012

I say 85/15 with a STAY being issued. I am useally wrong when I bet and I hope I am but I do not think so.

NOBODY

Inigoes · Jul 30, 2012

7 days and a wake-up before MD has to start issuing permits

pcfixer · Jul 30, 2012

Nobody said:
I say 85/15 with a STAY being issued. I am useally wrong when I bet and I hope I am but I do not think so.

NOBODY

Dont agree, Nobody.. more like 50/50 change. luck of draw on
panel to look at Motion on Stay from State...

Biggfoot44 · Jul 30, 2012

7 days and a wakeup until MSP starts the process of re-running background checks.

And if MSP had been keeping up their usual pace in the inbetween time , should be up around 400 by that time. Unless thay care to admit that they are now refusing to process any furthe apps at this point.

esqappellate · Jul 30, 2012

here is Woollard's brief just filed in the 4th Circuit today (7/30).

Inigoes · Jul 30, 2012

esqappellate said:
here is Woollard's brief just filed in the 4th Circuit today (7/30).

100 pages!

:shocked:

Mr H · Jul 30, 2012

Well, 21 are TOC, TOA, etc...

only 79 to read!!

dlmcbm · Jul 30, 2012

Is this for the appeal? What about the stay? Can he respond to that?

Inigoes · Jul 30, 2012

dlmcbm said:
Is this for the appeal? What about the stay? Can he respond to that?

The initial Appeal

The stay reply is due tomorrow

esqappellate · Jul 30, 2012

mr h said:
Well, 21 are TOC, TOA, etc...

only 79 to read!!

The "page" limit in the court of appeals on briefs is 14,000 words (not counting tables, appendix, addendum and the like) and Gura certified that it doesn't exceed that amount.

Hopalong · Jul 30, 2012

Good stuff at the bottom of page 67 (next-to-last page):

"Long arms have common defensive application in the home. But it cannot seriously be suggested that Americans going about their daily lives on the streets of Annapolis lug shotguns for self-defense against prospective muggers and rapists."

"Depriving nearly everyone of the only type of firearm practical for defensive carry is neither narrowly tailored to, nor does it reasonably fit, any governmental interest."

"And just as GSR fails to address the alleged dangerousness of particular applicants, Defendants are plainly incapable of predicting who might be victimized and thus have more practical use for firearms. Crime is largely random and unpredictable. The GSR requirement is inherently arbitrary, in classifying applicants, and in classifying their likelihood of suffering criminal violence."

I'm skimming for now, but the conclusion of the brief really jumped out at me. Pure gold.

Mr H · Jul 30, 2012

esqappellate said:
The "page" limit in the court of appeals on briefs is 14,000 words (not counting tables, appendix, addendum and the like) and Gura certified that it doesn't exceed that amount.

Well, I read it.

It was a surprisingly easy read, and very nicely constructed.

I loved the "rationing" argument, and shooting holes in the briefs of the amici was very nice

Question for you... Was leaning that heavily on Heller a good thing?

Inigoes · Jul 30, 2012

Hopalong said:
Good stuff at the bottom of page 67 (next-to-last page):

"Long arms have common defensive application in the home. But it cannot seriously be suggested that Americans going about their daily lives on the streets of Annapolis lug shotguns for self-defense against prospective muggers and rapists."

"Depriving nearly everyone of the only type of firearm practical for defensive carry is neither narrowly tailored to, nor does it reasonably fit, any governmental interest."

"And just as GSR fails to address the alleged dangerousness of particular applicants, Defendants are plainly incapable of predicting who might be victimized and thus have more practical use for firearms. Crime is largely random and unpredictable. The GSR requirement is inherently arbitrary, in classifying applicants, and in classifying their likelihood of suffering criminal violence."

I'm skimming for now, but the conclusion of the brief really jumped out at me. Pure gold.

By skimming, you missed the werewolves!

Seriously, it's in there

Mr H · Jul 30, 2012

Inigoes said:
By skimming, you missed the werewolves!

Seriously, it's in there

I saw that too... got a chuckle out of it.

HoCoShooter · Jul 30, 2012

Hopalong said:
I'm skimming for now, but the conclusion of the brief really jumped out at me. Pure gold.

The notion that constitutional rights can only be enjoyed upon proof
of a “good and substantial reason” cannot be sustained.

:party29:

pcfixer · Jul 30, 2012

esqappellate said:
The "page" limit in the court of appeals on briefs is 14,000 words (not counting tables, appendix, addendum and the like) and Gura certified that it doesn't exceed that amount.

Long Motion to read.
Point that I got is Gura has/will argue the "carry outside the Home is a fundatmental right", should enjoy strict scruity. :thumbsup:

Sound good to me. :thumbsup:

Sum it up. I think Alan Gura is like Marines. ... "They've got really short hair and they always go for the throat."

mrjam2jab · Jul 30, 2012

I received the purple print card from MSP in the mail on Saturday.

Turns out my "print guy" is on vacation this week...guess that's a sign to wait until after the 8th? :innocent0

SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

In a State of Bliss

President, MSI

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Head'n for the hills

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

President, MSI

Attachments

Head'n for the hills

Banana'd

Ultimate Member

Head'n for the hills

President, MSI

Man of Many Nicknames

Banana'd

Head'n for the hills

Banana'd

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics