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  • Dalebert

    Active Member
    Apr 15, 2020
    105
    Baltimore County
    I have two problem guns and I'm looking for advice. These were both inherited from my wife's grandfather, but are the ones that noone was sentimental about, so I'm just trying to see if I can get to "functional". I know that someone is going to say take them to a gunsmith, but I'm hoping to avoid that (for at least one of them).

    The first one is a Star Militar marked 9mm & .38. A gunsmith several years ago told me that means it was 9mm Largo, then modified to 38 Super when it was imported. Anyway, the problem is that after every shot, the mag drops out about 1/4" or so, enough that the next round doesn't get chambered. I'm actually starting to wonder if the mag that came with it is really designed for it. The hole for the mag release is circular while I've seen others on Gunbroker that seem to be for this gun and the hole is rectangular (but I'm not certain enough to buy anything).

    The second one is a Llama Especial with the same markings. Unfortunately that one went first to my father-in-law who shot a few hundred rounds of standard 9mm through it. Since the round was shorter, the firing pin had to travel further, then got slammed back into the hammer. As such the back of the firing pin has mushroomed out a bit. The same gunsmith said that the cheapest way out was to find a replacement firing pin.

    Any recommendations on either of these?
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,733
    Which Star is it?
    Model 1920 has a safety lever on the slide at the back and a two-piece firing pin
    Model 1921 has a grip safety
    Model 1922 has no grip safety and looks mostly like a Model A or B but with a straight mainspring housing
    Model 1931 has no grip safety and looks mostly like a Model A or B but with an arched mainspring housing

    1920, 1921, 1922 use a circular hole for the mag release, the 1931 I think has a slot.
    You should be able to take the grips off, push the mag catch and see what the profile looks like.
    Make sure the mag catch is flush with the frame when the mag is fully seated.

    The correct original mags for the 1920-22 look like the attached pic.
    Nickel-plated, and a pinned base. Repro/aftermarket use a crimped or welded base plate and may not work right.

    BTW, DO NOT dry fire a Star.

    The Llama firing pin issue sounds fishy, shooting 9x19 shouldn't have done that.
    The extractor holds the 9x19 against the chamber face, it doesn't fall into the chamber.
    Chances are it was replaced at some point with a non-hardened pin, it takes a lot to mush a hardened pin.
    I'd check the hammer face carefully too.
    Regardless a new pin is your best bet, but you may need to have one made.
     

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    Jul 1, 2012
    5,733
    Oh yeah, the .38 means .38 ACP, NOT .38 Super.
    Same cartridge, but more badda-boom out of the Super and the earlier pistols might be damaged.
    All they did to "convert" it was cut a groove in the barrel hood to accommodate the semi-rim case of the .38 ACP.
     

    HiStandards

    Active Member
    Aug 1, 2017
    580
    Anne Arundel Co
    If you don't plan on firing the Llama very much, the cheapest fix may be chuck the firing pin in your drill press and file/sand off the mushroom. I take no responsibility for your metal working skills, but that's what I would try.
     

    Dalebert

    Active Member
    Apr 15, 2020
    105
    Baltimore County
    Wow, thank you everyone for your quick and knowledgeable responses...as a person who has pretty much no experience with older handguns, hearing from people that know stuff is VERY MUCH appreciated. I didn't even have a "good working order" 1911 until a few months ago when I bought a Springfield Armory Defender Series Mil-Spec (wanted the first one to be vanilla).

    Some followups and added details:

    For the Star...I haven't looked extremely closely at these in a few years, so I don't recall the markings (honestly, I wouldn't even swear to whether or not it has a grip safety, but I don't think so) but I'll take a look tonight and see if I can determine which mag I should have based on what you've written. I'd have to research to tell the difference between a Model A or B, but I know what a flat/arched mainspring housing is. After getting your information the whole thing makes more sense now. The Star seems to work fine other than dropping the mag, so that could be a very easy fix.

    For the Llama... can't swear to the cause - 9X19 seemed a good scape-goat, but maybe not - either way the pin is definitely mushrooming; and badly enough that it had to be forcibly removed from the firing pin stop in order to disassemble; it had jammed and wasn't going anywhere in either direction. I definitely thought about about chucking it up and grinding it down, but didn't want to have the same thing happen again... and with even less material probably even quicker. Also, I thought that if I found the right person, looking at the amount of "volume" in the mushroom would be helpful for determining the rightful/original dimensions of the firing pin. If I needed to have one made, does anyone have any idea what would that cost? Is there a machinist that could copy it (maybe less expensive than a gunsmith)? My grandfather was a machinist for Martin Marietta and he was amazing to watch...of course by the time I came along he was retired but had a full machinist shop in his basement. People would bring him lawnmowers and he'd take apart the engine, find the part that was worn, take the measurements (nothing digital), create one and put the whole thing back together and it would work the first time. He could have made a replacement firing pin, of course he died +/- 25 years ago, so that won't work. Do people like that still exist?

    By the way, right now I wouldn't list either of them as "functional" so, far from not shooting them "too often", I don't shoot either of them at all. I'd like to get them back to functional, but yes, I didn't have plans for high usage for either of them.

    .38 ACP vs .38 Super - I have 300 rounds of .38 Super from PMC...any suggestions? Pull them and reload? Shoot what I have but then only do lighter loads after that? Go buy a modern .38 Super? Find someone to trade? Sell it to someone with the understanding that I get the brass back?
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,733
    The big-frame Llamas are basically copies of a 1911 so it may be possible to adapt a 1911 firing pin.
    As far as the pin dimensions, it can be fit to the hole in the FP stop.
    I've had pins made for about $40-$50 where the gunsmith used mine as a pattern to make a bunch to sell.
    The trickiest part is figuring out what model you have :)
    This is the best I've found so far at ID'ing the Llama models:
    https://carbinesforcollectors.com/llamapage.html

    There should be a date code on the left side of the frame above the trigger (for earlier models) that will tell you the year which can help narrow things down.
    Later models sometimes have these under the left grip.
    http://star-firearms.com/firearms/proof.shtml


    The Star is probably too early for a date proof (started in 1927) which in itself narrows the models down. Here's the basic models in 9x23 (all but B) and 9x19 (B). The only difference between a Model A and B for any given year is the caliber. If it's an A or B that will be stamped on the butt along with the S/N. If it's a super rare early Model A with grip safety then the S/N is on the right side of frame with an "A" prefix.
     

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    Dalebert

    Active Member
    Apr 15, 2020
    105
    Baltimore County
    Thanks somd_mustangs...the picture in my head looks like 1922. I'm leaving work now and when I get home we'll see how closely the picture in my head matches reality. More to come...
     

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