PowPow
Where's the beef?
Unique (or Universal), H4895, Varget
All purpose powders
- Thread starter Cuttyfunk
- Start date
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kalister1
R.I.P.
Bullseye = Target Pistol
Blue Dot = Magnum Pistol
IMR3031 = Rifle
Blue Dot = Magnum Pistol
IMR3031 = Rifle
Speedluvn
Active Member
I appreciate your format when describing the powders. It allows me to understand what powders for the different applications.
steves1911
Ultimate Member
Reloader 15 for standard rifle
H1000 for magnums
Unique for pistol
H1000 for magnums
Unique for pistol
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,173
It all comes down to the cartridges ( or classes of Cartridge) , and how far you are willing to compromise the performance of each .
I'll go out on a limb , and say that ANY ( non- autoloading ) metalic cartridge can be made to go Bang with Unique . But would 1200fps .300 Magnums really be worthwhile ? Would .300 Mag at .30-30 velocities be worthwhile ?
Do you want your Magnum revolvers/ pistol cal leverguns to actually be Magnums , or max out at 1100-ish ?
And the usual warnings , that the well known long time favorite versatile powders are the first to get cleaned off the shelf .
But approaching backwards , by catagories :, with emphasis on both flexibility and availability of load data . The later favors Golden Age powders over many newer one that may be just as good .
Fast to Medium Pistol : Bullseye , Red Dot, 231/ HP38 , Unique
Red Dot is a plus if you also do shotgun .
Slow to slow- ish Pistol , yet fairly flexible : 4227, AA9 2400 .
As iconic as 2400 is , 4227 and AA9 are both more flexible
.
In rifles , Medium speed powders cover a lot of Cartridges , from .223 class to .308 class . There are many powders , and I'm not in position to definitely state among the dozen or so most popular .
But in .30-06 class, and belted magnums your're going to be leaving lots of power on the table with medium powders . Many of these combos are pretty specialized for particular powder and bullet weight . The standout slow-ish powder with the most diverse published data for widest number of Ctgs is 4350 .
On the other end of the spectrum , 4198 has crap ton of data , even in ctgs where its not optimal
And I saw 1680 mentioned above , that's a neon flag that they're loading .300 Blackout . If Blackout is a priority , you will have to dedicate a powder slot just for that .
******************
So set your own priorities . Are you primarily a Rifle handloader ? Get two rifle powders plus unique . Are you primarily a handgun handloader ? Then get 231, 4227 , and a random Medium rifle powder .
Are you a 300BO person - 1680 , plus Unique , plus random Medium rifle powder .
I'll go out on a limb , and say that ANY ( non- autoloading ) metalic cartridge can be made to go Bang with Unique . But would 1200fps .300 Magnums really be worthwhile ? Would .300 Mag at .30-30 velocities be worthwhile ?
Do you want your Magnum revolvers/ pistol cal leverguns to actually be Magnums , or max out at 1100-ish ?
And the usual warnings , that the well known long time favorite versatile powders are the first to get cleaned off the shelf .
But approaching backwards , by catagories :, with emphasis on both flexibility and availability of load data . The later favors Golden Age powders over many newer one that may be just as good .
Fast to Medium Pistol : Bullseye , Red Dot, 231/ HP38 , Unique
Red Dot is a plus if you also do shotgun .
Slow to slow- ish Pistol , yet fairly flexible : 4227, AA9 2400 .
As iconic as 2400 is , 4227 and AA9 are both more flexible
.
In rifles , Medium speed powders cover a lot of Cartridges , from .223 class to .308 class . There are many powders , and I'm not in position to definitely state among the dozen or so most popular .
But in .30-06 class, and belted magnums your're going to be leaving lots of power on the table with medium powders . Many of these combos are pretty specialized for particular powder and bullet weight . The standout slow-ish powder with the most diverse published data for widest number of Ctgs is 4350 .
On the other end of the spectrum , 4198 has crap ton of data , even in ctgs where its not optimal
And I saw 1680 mentioned above , that's a neon flag that they're loading .300 Blackout . If Blackout is a priority , you will have to dedicate a powder slot just for that .
******************
So set your own priorities . Are you primarily a Rifle handloader ? Get two rifle powders plus unique . Are you primarily a handgun handloader ? Then get 231, 4227 , and a random Medium rifle powder .
Are you a 300BO person - 1680 , plus Unique , plus random Medium rifle powder .
alucard0822
For great Justice
CFE pistol for most every service caliber, H110 for 300black and magnum handgun/carbine, H4895 for service cal rifle. Pretty much covers everything I have, even if I have another "favorite" powder for a particular caliber or load.
jimbobborg
Oddball caliber fan
I have a variety of firearms, so paring it down to just 3 powders wouldn't make sense for me.
So 3 per type.
Titegroup, Blue Dot, and Unique cover the spectrum of my handgun smokeless powders
IMR 4895 will work well with 5.56, 7.62 NATO, and 30-06, and other cartridges of that size. I use H322 for my 6.8, because I get the best performance and accuracy with that combo. I'm still trying to find a good magnum rifle powder. I'm thinking RL22, since it works for my 300 WinMag, and would work with the 416 Rigby I'm going to get while I can still shoot it.
So 3 per type.
Titegroup, Blue Dot, and Unique cover the spectrum of my handgun smokeless powders
IMR 4895 will work well with 5.56, 7.62 NATO, and 30-06, and other cartridges of that size. I use H322 for my 6.8, because I get the best performance and accuracy with that combo. I'm still trying to find a good magnum rifle powder. I'm thinking RL22, since it works for my 300 WinMag, and would work with the 416 Rigby I'm going to get while I can still shoot it.
On these, we agree. 
WST and WSF work well for 9mm and 45 ACP for me. They are also shotgun powders.
WST and WSF work well for 9mm and 45 ACP for me. They are also shotgun powders.
Really good replies here.
So when it comes to versatility ( end of world and you can only grab 3 to stock your shelves) here are the most versatile choices. Your mileage may vary.
Pistol/Shotgun #1 Unique #2 Universal
-- Covers nearly all of everything hence the name. I like #3 Bullseye because a very little goes a long way 2000+ pistol cases per pound
Rifle Standard-- #1 4895 #2 4064
-- 223 thru 30-06 and safe for gas operated guns been in use for service for 70+ years Also fits the big 375 H&H etc mags very well. I like 4064 better than Varget or RL15 because its more accurate and consistent lot-lot and across temp. I have all 3 but i find 4064 does it better.
MAG Rifle-- #1 4350 #2 H1000
-- 4350 is a great high performance powder for standard rifles too but will damage gas guns (M1 garand etc) also works great in 300 Mags etc. H1000 is a great powder but not as versatile. so many choices but this really can't cover the number of calibers as 4350. not even a close second. I wish I had a better number 2 for this catagory but H4350/IMR4350 are just really that good. However H1000 can do things with heavy bullets to make the 300WM run like a RUM...
So when it comes to versatility ( end of world and you can only grab 3 to stock your shelves) here are the most versatile choices. Your mileage may vary.
Pistol/Shotgun #1 Unique #2 Universal
-- Covers nearly all of everything hence the name. I like #3 Bullseye because a very little goes a long way 2000+ pistol cases per pound
Rifle Standard-- #1 4895 #2 4064
-- 223 thru 30-06 and safe for gas operated guns been in use for service for 70+ years Also fits the big 375 H&H etc mags very well. I like 4064 better than Varget or RL15 because its more accurate and consistent lot-lot and across temp. I have all 3 but i find 4064 does it better.
MAG Rifle-- #1 4350 #2 H1000
-- 4350 is a great high performance powder for standard rifles too but will damage gas guns (M1 garand etc) also works great in 300 Mags etc. H1000 is a great powder but not as versatile. so many choices but this really can't cover the number of calibers as 4350. not even a close second. I wish I had a better number 2 for this catagory but H4350/IMR4350 are just really that good. However H1000 can do things with heavy bullets to make the 300WM run like a RUM...
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,173
#1 - Universal was designed to be a Ball Powder replacement for Unique .
#3 - I'm surprised no recommendations for 4831 .
And as observed above , Every shotgun powder will have at least one niche of Revolver usage .
#3 - I'm surprised no recommendations for 4831 .
And as observed above , Every shotgun powder will have at least one niche of Revolver usage .
ironhead7544
Active Member
- Oct 27, 2018
- 188
Unique, Power Pistol and WW296/H110.
At the moment, I only have firearms in 9mm, 38 Special, 44 Magnum and 300 Blackout.
At the moment, I only have firearms in 9mm, 38 Special, 44 Magnum and 300 Blackout.
Speedluvn
Active Member
Curious, I have some Winchester 296. What loads are are you using? Do your loads call for magnum rifle primers?
I just loaded some 147 grain bullets with a starting load of 14.6 grains of powder. It’s worked well. I also loaded a few 14.7 up to 14.9 with no issues
Blacksmith101
Grumpy Old Man
- Jun 22, 2012
- 22,269
I did a study looking for the most versatile powders. My criteria was could I find at least one published recipe for any caliber in a number of reloading manuals for that particular powder then I broke down the calibers by either rifle or handgun. Here are my interim results:
Revision E Totals
Most versatile combo IMR 4198 Rifle (108 calibers), Unique Handgun (37 calibers); For a total of 145.
However because some additional rifle and/or handgun calibers were included under each individual powder the grand total of 168 total different caliber cartridges would be possible for the two powders.
Powder / Rifle / Handgun / Total
231 / 2 / 26 / 28
2400 / 70 / 13 / 83
IMR 3031 / 97 / 8 / 105
IMR 4198 / 108 / 7 / 115
IMR 4227 / 85 / 20 / 105
IMR 4895 / 100 / 7 / 107
Bullseye / 3 / 31 / 34
Unique / 86 / 37 / 123
PB / 45 / 23 / 68
Red Dot / 45 / 20 / 65
Green Dot / 45 / 12 / 57
Blue Dot / 4 / 19 / 23
Notes and list of reloading manuals:
Not all possible powders were considered nor were all reloading manuals consulted (becomes to large a project) so if your favorites are not on the list do your own analysis and please post your findings.
Notes: IMR-4064 (45 rifie 2 handgun) and Reloader 7 (56 rifle 16 handgun) have only been checked in Reference F
KEY:
A = Handloader’s Guide for Smokeless powders; IMR Powder Company; 1990
B = Hodgdon’s 2011 Annual Reloading Manual; Hodgdon Powder Co.; 2011
C = Lyman Ideal Handbook No. 40; The Lyman Gun Sight Corp.; 1955 (lot of cast loads)
D = Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition; Lyman Products Co.; copy write 1980, printed 2010
E = Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition; Lyman Products Co.; copy write 2010
F = Lyman Reloading Handbook 49th Edition; copy write 2008, printed 2008
Revision E Totals
Most versatile combo IMR 4198 Rifle (108 calibers), Unique Handgun (37 calibers); For a total of 145.
However because some additional rifle and/or handgun calibers were included under each individual powder the grand total of 168 total different caliber cartridges would be possible for the two powders.
Powder / Rifle / Handgun / Total
231 / 2 / 26 / 28
2400 / 70 / 13 / 83
IMR 3031 / 97 / 8 / 105
IMR 4198 / 108 / 7 / 115
IMR 4227 / 85 / 20 / 105
IMR 4895 / 100 / 7 / 107
Bullseye / 3 / 31 / 34
Unique / 86 / 37 / 123
PB / 45 / 23 / 68
Red Dot / 45 / 20 / 65
Green Dot / 45 / 12 / 57
Blue Dot / 4 / 19 / 23
Notes and list of reloading manuals:
Not all possible powders were considered nor were all reloading manuals consulted (becomes to large a project) so if your favorites are not on the list do your own analysis and please post your findings.
Notes: IMR-4064 (45 rifie 2 handgun) and Reloader 7 (56 rifle 16 handgun) have only been checked in Reference F
KEY:
A = Handloader’s Guide for Smokeless powders; IMR Powder Company; 1990
B = Hodgdon’s 2011 Annual Reloading Manual; Hodgdon Powder Co.; 2011
C = Lyman Ideal Handbook No. 40; The Lyman Gun Sight Corp.; 1955 (lot of cast loads)
D = Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition; Lyman Products Co.; copy write 1980, printed 2010
E = Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition; Lyman Products Co.; copy write 2010
F = Lyman Reloading Handbook 49th Edition; copy write 2008, printed 2008
cstone
Active Member
Red Dot/Promo
Power Pistol
4064
I am very happy that I don't have to settle for just three powders.
Power Pistol
4064
I am very happy that I don't have to settle for just three powders.
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,173
You realize most of those Unique, 2400, 2400, 4227, PB , and all the Dots " rifle " loads are for cast bullets or otherwise 1,000 fps -ish reduced loads ?
I see a lot of folks talking about rifle and handgun, but what about shotgun reloading. That’s where powder like Unique wold really come into play.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
True, but Unique and Universal are arguably the most versatile.
I went with Bullseye, CFE223 and Accurate 2495.
The later I needed something Garand compatible for my big boy cartridges and IMR4895 and 4064 were not available (I JUST got it a couple of weeks ago to start reloading .308 and .30-06/Garand).
Maybe I'll decide I don't like them for some crazy reason. Well, I have found a lack of reloading info for Bullseye for a lot of cartridges in a lot of my guides. Which is weird because the powder is decades old. But its working well in 38spc and .45acp so far. I've found load data for 32acp, 9x19 and 9x18. I haven't looked at 7.62x25 yet. But if it can handle that also, then it covers every pistol caliber I own (though only reloading for 38spc and .45acp right now).
Starting to reload .223 and 6.5 Grendel shortly (have components, just haven't run up any loads yet).
.308 and .30-06 down the road (also have all the components, but one thing at a time).
From what I can see, I could possibly use Accurate 2495 for heavier 6.5 Grendel and .223 loads. But not ideal.
The later I needed something Garand compatible for my big boy cartridges and IMR4895 and 4064 were not available (I JUST got it a couple of weeks ago to start reloading .308 and .30-06/Garand).
Maybe I'll decide I don't like them for some crazy reason. Well, I have found a lack of reloading info for Bullseye for a lot of cartridges in a lot of my guides. Which is weird because the powder is decades old. But its working well in 38spc and .45acp so far. I've found load data for 32acp, 9x19 and 9x18. I haven't looked at 7.62x25 yet. But if it can handle that also, then it covers every pistol caliber I own (though only reloading for 38spc and .45acp right now).
Starting to reload .223 and 6.5 Grendel shortly (have components, just haven't run up any loads yet).
.308 and .30-06 down the road (also have all the components, but one thing at a time).
From what I can see, I could possibly use Accurate 2495 for heavier 6.5 Grendel and .223 loads. But not ideal.
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,173
Every Shotgun powder is usable in at least some revolvers .
Most Shotgun powders other than the very slowest wil have semiauto pistol applications , but is not as absolute due to burning speed / density relationships .
Not all theoretical usable combinations are published , for various reasons . Space limitations in manuals , finite number of hours for in house ballistic labs , the mfg already has lots of published data for that ctg with more popular powders, existing similar powders do the same thing with lower SD's , etc
For example , Accurate 4100 . Ball Powder primarily intended for .410 shotshell , just a hair slower than W296/ H110 . Ought to be highly useful for magnum revolver , but data for such is way less common than for MP3000 .
Most Shotgun powders other than the very slowest wil have semiauto pistol applications , but is not as absolute due to burning speed / density relationships .
Not all theoretical usable combinations are published , for various reasons . Space limitations in manuals , finite number of hours for in house ballistic labs , the mfg already has lots of published data for that ctg with more popular powders, existing similar powders do the same thing with lower SD's , etc
For example , Accurate 4100 . Ball Powder primarily intended for .410 shotshell , just a hair slower than W296/ H110 . Ought to be highly useful for magnum revolver , but data for such is way less common than for MP3000 .
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