Is Glock hurting, after the Gen 5?

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  • erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    IMO, they should have stuck with the gen 4, maybe added a couple other variants
    I think it's pretty telling that the MOS and 19X are the most recent Glocks to get people excited. The "tactical" market is huge, and Glock only seems to cater to it every once in a while.

    Here are what I would consider mistakes:
    1. You can't even buy an MOS with a factory threaded barrel.
    2. Phasing out the C models without trying to replace them with proper carry-comp models.
    3. Not trying to make a full-size single-stack gun. Given how many shooting sports are limited to 10 or 8rd magazines, I genuinely believe something like this could sell well.

    ETA: to be fair, the single-stack guns were pretty well-received and had more new bits, so credit where credit is due.
     

    Bisleyfan44

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 11, 2008
    1,758
    Wicomico
    If Glock was smart they would make a Carbine that takes, wait for it.... GLOCK MAGS!! People have wanted this for years. 9mm, 40S&W, 10mm or 45acp carbines with grip options that take all mag sizes for the respective caliber. That would be a gold mine for them.

    What would be nice is a carbine with the magwell in the grip, like a High Point. I hate to ape the ape gun, but if you can wrap your mitts around a Glock pistol, why not a carbine with the mag in the handgrip. It would shorten the whole thing. Then with a 16” barrel and 13-14” LOP and you are at your 29-30” or so OAL without going Bullpup and you are basically 50 state legal with a very compact pistol caliber carbine. Make the buttstock a side folder if you need to.

    Why they haven't just left the handguns alone for a bit and concentrated on a carbine is incomprehensible. They would absolutely OWN THE MARKET with such a rifle.

    I thought the Glock 5 was for me, now just thinking my gen 2 G17 works just fine.

    The Gen 2 is perfect to me as well. Every "improvement" of each subsequent generation is useless to me.

    3. Not trying to make a full-size single-stack gun. Given how many shooting sports are limited to 10 or 8rd magazines, I genuinely believe something like this could sell well.

    I know it might be heresy, but I would LOVE to see a full or mid size model that would take .45 1911 mags (or at least a Glock 8-round single stack).
     

    holesonpaper

    Active Member
    Mar 10, 2017
    913
    Hazzard county
    I don't have any experience with the Gen 2 or 3, but I own a number of Glocks including a Gen4 19, Gen5 19, and Gen4 23. For me, I prefer the Gen5 but I'll agree with folks that Glock ignored details and rushed it out the door. How do you release a pistol where the front of the slide doesn't align with the frame (in a dorky kind of way)? That said, I prefer the Gen5 so much so, I'd walk from my Gen4's if I could get half the money I invested. I think the Gen5 gets some unnecessary hate but whatever. It's almost like they know the aftermarket community will fill the void where they fall short... Will it ultimately impact Glock - I doubt it.
     

    rob-cubed

    In need of moderation
    Sep 24, 2009
    5,387
    Holding the line in Baltimore
    Glock suffers from the same problems as any upstart-turned-incumbent.

    You have market share. You made something initially disruptive and better. So what's next?

    Most incumbents of their size prefer to absorb and incorporate the competition, rather than R&D. It's cheaper to let others assume risk and then buy them out.

    Glock seems to be super-invested in their own kool-aid based on how long it took them to create a single-stack version.

    I'm still a reluctant Glock guy, after never wanting to ever like the design, but owning them more than any other handgun while waiting for whatever comes next. It'd be nice if Glock embraced their values and was "next" but I strongly suspect they won't, without a major change of leadership or an acquisition.
     

    ironbag

    Member
    Apr 6, 2018
    54
    Gaithersburg
    Personally, I mostly stick with Glock because of the huge aftermarket and backwards compatibility with mags and holsters. I also took advantage of palmetto state armory’s Glock lower and 40 mag deal a couple years ago, so I’m pretty heavily invested in the Glock ecosystem. While I’ll admit that Glock doesn’t exactly bring any innovation to the table, I was impressed with the 19X trigger, and I fanboy’ed over the new FDE mags.
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    I think, perhaps, the most important "mistake" made with the Glock Gen 5 is the hang-up/catch of the mag induced at the notch, as shown around 7:40 of this video:


    That presents problems that weren't there before, and in an actual reload situation, a danger.

    I really don't like Glocks. I respect the heck out of them, but they never really fit my hand right. I guess I basically grew up on 1911's...and they sure ain't Glocks. :shrug: A few weeks ago, I handled a G34 in both Gen 4 and 5. Ultimately, the 5 came home with me. :o The four never would have, because: ladyfinger grooves.

    If this guy found their only 5 faults, I think they are indeed pretty damned close to "perfection."

    1)Plastic sights. Well, it's a plastic gun :shrug: Do they get knocked off in combat? Maybe. If I was taking it into combat, I'd probably want to opt for steel sights, and a steel frame.

    2)The Glock hump. Isn't that the same as the arched mainspring housing that was considered one of the A1 improvements to the 1911, done to create the very situation he described because soldiers were shooting them too low? That's kinda what makes it feel like a Glock :shrug:

    3)Slide stop :rolleye12 make it bigger (like a competition gun), and it will snag on stuff if used for a carry gun. Are there aftermarket solutions to tailor it to one's individual tastes? Also, aren't there folks who have problems with it interfering with their grip (or, I guess the other way...their grip/thumbs interfere with it)? I kinda like it out of the way.

    4) Front serrations. I don't care about this at all...but that's just me :shrug:

    5.1) The cutout is uncomfortable. That's because the gun is too small for his hand. My wife has a G19 (Gen...idk...and older one without the cutout). It is very uncomfortable on my pinkey.

    5.2) Personally, when I reload, I let the magazine be guided in by the back, not the front. Instead of showering and going to bed like I should have, I ran to the safe (nekkid, if anyone cares :eek:) to try to cause his "hangup." I couldn't duplicate it in anyway that couldn't be overcome by just pushing harder. Maybe it was my lack of entangling clothing, maybe his is defective :shrug: (maybe this guy is one of those actors on infomercials whose specialty is making normal tasks look complicated and difficult:confused:)

    I tried Katie's G19 (without the cutout). Honestly, between the two, I could create more resistance with hers than mine...maybe because her magwell isn't flared? Just for kicks, I tried my Colt 1991A1 (it has steel sights, and, from the factory, there are versions available with flat mainspring housings, front serrations, and big slide stop levers...just sayin':innocent0). I was able to get it to stick pretty good in that, when I really tried to. In the stress of competition, I've had no trouble figuring out how to reload that trickier, "stickier" pistol (no flared magwell or anything). I'm confident that, unless I try to put the mag in backwards like that cop in the car chase video, I should have no trouble getting it in my Glock because of the cutout.

    ...And I don't even like Glocks:sad20:
     

    knovotny

    Active Member
    Feb 5, 2013
    980
    Aberdeen, MD
    I really don't like Glocks. I respect the heck out of them, but they never really fit my hand right. I guess I basically grew up on 1911's...and they sure ain't Glocks. :shrug: A few weeks ago, I handled a G34 in both Gen 4 and 5. Ultimately, the 5 came home with me. :o The four never would have, because: ladyfinger grooves.

    If this guy found their only 5 faults, I think they are indeed pretty damned close to "perfection."

    1)Plastic sights. Well, it's a plastic gun :shrug: Do they get knocked off in combat? Maybe. If I was taking it into combat, I'd probably want to opt for steel sights, and a steel frame.

    2)The Glock hump. Isn't that the same as the arched mainspring housing that was considered one of the A1 improvements to the 1911, done to create the very situation he described because soldiers were shooting them too low? That's kinda what makes it feel like a Glock :shrug:

    3)Slide stop :rolleye12 make it bigger (like a competition gun), and it will snag on stuff if used for a carry gun. Are there aftermarket solutions to tailor it to one's individual tastes? Also, aren't there folks who have problems with it interfering with their grip (or, I guess the other way...their grip/thumbs interfere with it)? I kinda like it out of the way.

    4) Front serrations. I don't care about this at all...but that's just me :shrug:

    5.1) The cutout is uncomfortable. That's because the gun is too small for his hand. My wife has a G19 (Gen...idk...and older one without the cutout). It is very uncomfortable on my pinkey.

    5.2) Personally, when I reload, I let the magazine be guided in by the back, not the front. Instead of showering and going to bed like I should have, I ran to the safe (nekkid, if anyone cares :eek:) to try to cause his "hangup." I couldn't duplicate it in anyway that couldn't be overcome by just pushing harder. Maybe it was my lack of entangling clothing, maybe his is defective :shrug: (maybe this guy is one of those actors on infomercials whose specialty is making normal tasks look complicated and difficult:confused:)

    I tried Katie's G19 (without the cutout). Honestly, between the two, I could create more resistance with hers than mine...maybe because her magwell isn't flared? Just for kicks, I tried my Colt 1991A1 (it has steel sights, and, from the factory, there are versions available with flat mainspring housings, front serrations, and big slide stop levers...just sayin':innocent0). I was able to get it to stick pretty good in that, when I really tried to. In the stress of competition, I've had no trouble figuring out how to reload that trickier, "stickier" pistol (no flared magwell or anything). I'm confident that, unless I try to put the mag in backwards like that cop in the car chase video, I should have no trouble getting it in my Glock because of the cutout.

    ...And I don't even like Glocks:sad20:

    This is why I married him.

    But seriously, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Clearly plenty of people don't like the finger grooves. I personally love them on my 19 (I think it's a 3). But I wear a size 7 glove. This video dude complaining about how uncomfortable the cutout is, and how they are even selling extended base magazines, like he's not holding a compact gun. Maybe, and this is radical but stick with me here, they could build a gun just slightly larger than a 19, for people with full sized hands. Or how about the fact that extended mags for small guns is not a new thing, heck, I think even I have some!

    And his mag sticking on the reload? How hard was he trying to make it happen. I'm by no means any kind of pistol guru, but geeze. Pretty sure I could get any mag stuck if I tried that hard.

    And he wasn't lying when he said he did all that nekkid. Now I'm the one killing time waiting for him to shower so I can...
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Why they haven't just left the handguns alone for a bit and concentrated on a carbine is incomprehensible. They would absolutely OWN THE MARKET with such a rifle.
    Maybe. Not clear to me that the market for PCCs is really all that huge compared to handguns and "real" rifles.
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    I think, perhaps, the most important "mistake" made with the Glock Gen 5 is the hang-up/catch of the mag induced at the notch, as shown around 7:40 of this video:


    That presents problems that weren't there before, and in an actual reload situation, a danger.

    This guy still pisses me off...(and did I mention that I don't even like Glocks?:rolleyes:)

    I did some more magazine fiddling around (dressed this time, to minimize variables ;)), with the same result. Even if I deliberately jam it into the front of the magwell, the momentary resistance is easily overcome with just a little more force. Giving Katie's (as best we can figure) Gen 3 the same treatment, it actually provided more resistance...without the cutout.

    Maybe this would make the guy happier (but he'd still have to learn how to put the mag in properly) :shrug:
    glocksolutionforonlinedummy.jpg


    As a non-Glock fan now owning a Glock, there's only one improvement I can think of (other than things like an exposed hammer, manual safety, single action trigger, steel frame...you know, all the things that would make it notGlock)...I'd be ok with a little more breathing room in the trigger guard. My fat fingers find it a little snuggly as it is :o, and I think even a tight fitting glove might be a problem.


    The steel frame has me thinking though...I wonder if anybody makes a steel 80% Glock frame :shrug:
     

    Bisleyfan44

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 11, 2008
    1,758
    Wicomico
    Maybe. Not clear to me that the market for PCCs is really all that huge compared to handguns and "real" rifles.

    Yeah, I don't know. With the new Ruger PC selling well and the AR-based PC carbines, I'd think they'd sell enough. And EVERY Glock fanboy would buy one, just because it's a Glock something. I'm not a fanboy, but would try a 9 and 45, for sure.
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504
    Not sure why anyone would think Glock would be hurting. Their market share is enormous. Look at how other companies have brought out their own models and how fast they disappeared (looking at you, Remington). Sure, some newbies insist on buying Caniks and other such stuff, but Glock commands the market by a good margin.
     

    DutchV

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 8, 2012
    4,702
    If anyone wants to try a short slide / long grip combo, the X-Grip magazine adapters make using a longer magazine very comfortable. The Glock 26 is a completely different beast when using an adapter and a G19 magazine. I get a much better grip now. Not quite the same as a G19, but tons better than the G26. A G19 fits me pretty well so I suspect that using a G17 mag won't make much of a difference. That's next on the list to try. Twenty bucks instead of a new 19x? Yeah, I'll try that.

    I'd look at a Glock carbine. Have they ever mentioned one being designed? Right now the Ruger is leading the pack. There's also the carbine upper kits that use a Glock frame. Sort of goofy but I hear that they work okay.
     

    ironpony

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    7,190
    Davidsonville
    If anyone wants to try a short slide / long grip combo, the X-Grip magazine adapters make using a longer magazine very comfortable. The Glock 26 is a completely different beast when using an adapter and a G19 magazine. I get a much better grip now. Not quite the same as a G19, but tons better than the G26. A G19 fits me pretty well so I suspect that using a G17 mag won't make much of a difference. That's next on the list to try. Twenty bucks instead of a new 19x? Yeah, I'll try that.

    I'd look at a Glock carbine. Have they ever mentioned one being designed? Right now the Ruger is leading the pack. There's also the carbine upper kits that use a Glock frame. Sort of goofy but I hear that they work okay.

    You may also like the Magpul G26 magazine, pinky rest.

    I doubt Glock is hurting other than the R&D on the carbine. I have thought of buying a plastic striker other than a Glock then notice most other brands mags are double the cost of decent Glock mag. wth?
     

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