Guns ... No, Grizzlies in schools

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  • sleepingdino

    Active Member
    Mar 13, 2013
    607
    People's Republic of Mont Co
    You do have choice, just not using tax money to do it.

    And there is no such thing as "untouchable tenure". Move off of that talking point right now because its simply not true.

    DeVos and many others support disrupting the status quo of public education by increasing alternatives. Some of these alternatives are publicly funded, such as charter schools.

    A blanket claim that "DeVos is against public schools" is a quote worthy of Chuck Schumer and his allies. In many cities, publicly funded charter schools are overwhelmed by demand from parents wanting their kids to escape the status quo, failing public schools with employees that have excellent job security.

    If homeschoolers can outperform many public and private school students, then the classic leftist solution, simply throwing money at the problem, is specious at best.
     

    EL1227

    R.I.P.
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 14, 2010
    20,274
    CONFIRMED ...

    Senate narrowly confirms Betsy DeVos as education secretary

    Narrowly, but just like with horseshoes and hand grenades, close counts.

    A Michigan billionaire and major Republican donor, she has spent three decades using her wealth and political clout to advocate for alternatives to public schools, particularly taxpayer-funded vouchers to help parents pay tuition for private and religious schools. She also has advocated for a loosely regulated variety of charter schools.

    Republicans have defended her as an outsider who would challenge the status quo and as a conservative who would reduce the federal footprint in public schools. They are keen to change course after eight years in which the Obama Education Department exercised an unusually high level of influence.

    She's going to have a tough job though. If there is any government agency more entrenched with ideological bureaucrats than State, it's the Dept. of Education. The press will continue to paint her as a Trump-appointed bumbling idiot, who bought her cabinet position, but she deserves our support if you believe that DC has been systematically poisoning the minds of our kids for 20+ years thanks to the likes of Bill Ayers.

    Bill Ayers: Bringing Down America, Destroying Education

    Bill Ayers, Education Secretary of Weatherman, told him that in the revolution, lives would have to be sacrificed.

    My interest in Bill Ayers began a few years ago when I learned about his career as a “Distinguished Professor of Education.” In reality he was working to destroy everything that was good about our education system. Ayers, after escaping punishment in 1980, used his position at the University of Illinois at Chicago, to spread his revolutionary ideas throughout the educational system--in the classes he taught, the books and articles he wrote, the conferences he attended, the dissertation committees he sat on, and the political connections he fostered with Barack Obama and Arne Duncan on the Annenberg Challenge.

    One of the things that has encouraged me as we’ve talked to these groups is the awareness of Obama and Duncan’s education plan called Common Core. This is a complete federal power grab with an agenda in line with the educational aims of Bill Ayers. The last refuge of conservatives for education, homeschooling and private schools, will effectively be eliminated under Common Core.
     
    Last edited:

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    33,876
    Senate narrowly confirms Betsy DeVos as education secretary

    Narrowly, but just like with horseshoes and hand grenades, close counts.



    She's going to have a tough job though. If there is any government agency more entrenched with ideological bureaucrats than State, it's the Dept. of Education. The press will continue to paint her as a Trump-appointed bumbling idiot, who bought her cabinet position, but she deserves our support if you believe that DC has been systematically poisoning the minds of our kids for 20+ years thanks to the like of Bill Ayers.

    Bill Ayers: Bringing Down America, Destroying Education

    Desperate times call for desperate measures. The Left has nobody but themselves to blame for taking us down a rathole for 50 years, not only in education but economically, culturally, and politically, too. The public is madderhanhell and isn't going to take it any more, at least until the next golden tongued orator with a recipe for utopia comes along and captures everyone's imagination again.
     

    JC92

    Active Member
    Aug 1, 2012
    104
    MD
    You do have choice, just not using tax money to do it.

    And there is no such thing as "untouchable tenure". Move off of that talking point right now because its simply not true.

    You are misguided on many levels. People absolutely have the right to use tax money in support of school choice. Honestly, do you know where the tax money originates? Yes, it was originally our money before we sent it to Washington
    Tenure (seniority) rules are part of the problem, but that appears to be a problem you want to avoid discussing
     

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,545
    You do have choice, just not using tax money to do it.

    And there is no such thing as "untouchable tenure". Move off of that talking point right now because its simply not true.

    :lol2: Tell that to the EBT card users.
     

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    33,876
    And CBS resports this as 'serious' news ...
    Education pick Betsy DeVos cites grizzlies in Wyoming when asked about guns in schools



    He should be shaken to HIS core ... He's an ideologue who interrupts and bullies, and CBS can't even discern a statement of fact and from a reference to someone else's comment. Besides, considering the school's geographic location, her referred answer made perfect sense.

    NSSF.org -
    Sen. Chris Murphy on Guns: The Facts Are Not with Him

    Getting back to the OP, Sen. Murphy was attempting to pin Sec, Devos into a corner and make the unequivocal statement that guns should never be in schools, under any circumstances. That's what sparked her controversial "grizzly" response.

    Murphy's question asking her to agree with an extreme position deserved the answer he got. There are lots of situations where guns should be in schools, e.g. security, training, etc. Look at the pending legislation here, now, over guns on campuses.
     

    243hunter

    Active Member
    Oct 26, 2012
    477
    Illinois
    This country's education department needs a major shakeup. There has been this push for technology in the classroom for years, and I told a teacher a couple of years ago, that since we have the technology, we can eliminate the teachers, classrooms and the school buses. How many millions of dollars will that save. That money could be reallocated to free high speed internet that could be used for students to student from home, or if not possible then maintain a school building for just that purpose. Average school day of a homeschooler is 2 1/2 to 3 hours. They could run two sessions a day.

    Needless to say they didn't like my reasoning.
     

    EL1227

    R.I.P.
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 14, 2010
    20,274

    Attachments

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    light12pdr

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 6, 2015
    236
    No, you are off-base here. School choice should be the default in the US, not a directed system that traps you in the local school system that is failing and staffed by teachers that have reached tenure and are un-touchable.

    ^ This
    Is exactly right. Some parents who can't afford private schools want better for their children and why not be able to have their children attend a better school so that they can have a brighter future.

    In my opinion, the biggest obstacle to teaching is the erosion of the family unit at home. Parents need to take an active role in their child's education. When a child knows how important education is and is encouraged to excel, they often do.

    Another obstacle is for the teachers. In many cases, they have children that do not respect authority and are very disruptive in class. It is not the teacher's job to raise the child right. I blame parents, or lack of parents, for this.
     

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,545
    MoCo sends 100's of kids to private schools. This is for kids the "public" school system wishes (or can't) not to accommodate. There is no reason general education can't be privatized and not funded with tax dollars. Last time I checked the Government wasn't building Airplanes, ships, roads etc, and those are all tax funded to for profit ventures.
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,856
    You are misguided on many levels. People absolutely have the right to use tax money in support of school choice. Honestly, do you know where the tax money originates? Yes, it was originally our money before we sent it to Washington
    Tenure (seniority) rules are part of the problem, but that appears to be a problem you want to avoid discussing

    You might to look at my background on this subject. Seriously.
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,856
    MoCo sends 100's of kids to private schools. This is for kids the "public" school system wishes (or can't) not to accommodate. There is no reason general education can't be privatized and not funded with tax dollars. Last time I checked the Government wasn't building Airplanes, ships, roads etc, and those are all tax funded to for profit ventures.

    Free and appropriate education in the least restrictive environment.

    Lets not confuse Harbor School with what we are discussing here
     
    Last edited:

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,369
    SoMD / West PA
    The main problem is that huge amounts of money has been tossed at education, and there are not any measurable increases.

    Pensions remain underfunded, Teachers Unions are collecting huge sums of money and for what?

    The kids are getting dumber, what has been tried in the past is not working based on "Professional Opinions".

    Why not try something else, such as Charter schools?
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,856
    The main problem is that huge amounts of money has been tossed at education, and there are not any measurable increases.

    The crux of that discussion is to drill down to exactly where the increases in funding are going, because I can tell you with all certainty that it is not making it into the regular classroom, nor the teachers' paychecks.

    It is largely reflective of the exponential increase in administrative and non-instructional personnel that are required to service the ever increasing complexities of the school systems. Central office staff, both certified and non-certified, have increased dramatically over even the last 5 years.

    There are so many more mandates that are handed down in terms of data collection and analysis, greater accountability for non-instructional things such as transportation, financial operations and building maintenance.

    That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the increasing number of special programs such as magnets, IB, STEM, specialty centers (whatever the school system happens to call them) and the again exponential increase in services and the scope of special education.

    We toss around numbers like $15k per student with the false assumption that it literally means that $15k worth of services is provided to each student. If allow for the fact that a single special education student can consume $100k-300k in services each year, and then factor in the expanding definition of who receives services, you quickly find that there is very little left over for instruction of "regular" kids.

    If you circle back to those specialty center/magnet programs and examine the transportation costs alone, it would shock you to see those numbers, which are way up in the 7 figures for a single magnet center.
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,856
    ^ This
    Is exactly right. Some parents who can't afford private schools want better for their children and why not be able to have their children attend a better school so that they can have a brighter future.

    In my opinion, the biggest obstacle to teaching is the erosion of the family unit at home. Parents need to take an active role in their child's education. When a child knows how important education is and is encouraged to excel, they often do.

    Another obstacle is for the teachers. In many cases, they have children that do not respect authority and are very disruptive in class. It is not the teacher's job to raise the child right. I blame parents, or lack of parents, for this.

    I've said repeatedly that i would be in favor of a voucher program that gave you a return of what you have paid for that year in school taxes. Get prepared for a surprise when you see how little you individually pay and then compare it to what a private school costs, however.

    Realize that your kids' public education is funded by your neighbors who don't have kids in the school system.
     

    EL1227

    R.I.P.
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 14, 2010
    20,274
    The main problem is that huge amounts of money has been tossed at education, and there are not any measurable increases. Pensions remain underfunded, Teachers Unions are collecting huge sums of money and for what?

    Teachers Unions AND the Dept. of Ed have long been collaborators (some would say colluders), they even wrote a white paper as a road map.

    Shared Responsibility:
    A U.S. Department of Education White Paper on
    Labor-Management Collaboration


    You can connect the dots on where the money goes ...

    The kids are getting dumber, what has been tried in the past is not working based on "Professional Opinions".

    Most of the "Professional Opinions" that came out of the Dept of Ed are based on the Annenberg Challenge.

    Common Core’s Chicago connections

    Why not try something else, such as Charter schools?

    I think the ONLY issues would be funding ... all the more reason to defund large swaths of the Dept. of Ed and redirect it into new educational alternatives with strict success criteria measurements.

    I know this thread has 'drifted' from my original question, but in my view it's ALL connected together. Guns in school is just another link to the chains that have been binding us. Start at an early age to make the great unwashed helpless and fearful, no matter where they are or what they do, so they ignore their family values and become dependent upon BIG government ... or in this case BIG education. You can't allow teachers 'trained' in the use of firearms any more than you can allow teachers to train their students to be independent thinkers. Concealed carry on campus is just a branch of the same tree of coercive learning that emanates from the worst use of fear as the motivating factor for control ... otherwise, why would today's snowflakes demand 'campus safe spaces' if they can't feel safe in their own person ?
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,369
    SoMD / West PA
    I think the ONLY issues would be funding ... all the more reason to defund large swaths of the Dept. of Ed and redirect it into new educational alternatives with strict success criteria measurements.

    Yeppers, every public school district will want to defend it's tax dollars.

    When those dollars start walking away, the School Boards and/or Administrators in charge will want the public feel the pain, instead of laying off the noncritical personnel like Norton was talking about.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,878
    WV
    I've said repeatedly that i would be in favor of a voucher program that gave you a return of what you have paid for that year in school taxes. Get prepared for a surprise when you see how little you individually pay and then compare it to what a private school costs, however.

    Realize that your kids' public education is funded by your neighbors who don't have kids in the school system.

    You'll still pay taxes long after the kids are out of the house. One way or another they'll get theirs.
    True that those who never have kids will basically help fund the schools with little return. I don't know what the percentage is of people who never have kids is.
     

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