FOPA and Pickup Truck?

swamplynx · Jul 28, 2016

Thinking about upgrading my SUV to a full-size 4-door truck, but the "separate compartment" aspect of FOPA and DC's transport laws has me concerned. In a car, your trunk is clearly your separate compartment so you transport there. In a SUV you clearly don't have a separate compartment, so you store in a locked container in the back. Here's where I get confused...

Is the bed of a truck considered a "separate compartment"? Case or no case I'd prefer to not transport in the bed. Is there any case law supporting one interpretation or the other?

Bertfish · Jul 28, 2016

Interesting question. I had always assumed storing firearms in the truck and ammunition in the bed was sufficient.

mopar92 · Jul 28, 2016

Dodge has a truck with a bed with side boxes. Think its called the Sportsmans model. I keep it simple, gun in the truck behind the seats and ammo in an ammo can tied to the bed. Untie the ammo can, go shoot, retie ammo can when done. Or buy a truck toolbox and keep the ammo there.

swamplynx · Jul 28, 2016

Bertfish said:
Interesting question. I had always assumed storing firearms in the truck and ammunition in the bed was sufficient.

That would be my common sense assumption as well.... For argument's sake, what if you have a tonneau cover on the bed? Even if it is a soft shitty one, does the bed become your separate compartment then, obligating you to store back there then?

Mtwoodson · Jul 28, 2016

Good question and interesting answers. I've always wondered.

lx1x · Jul 28, 2016

mopar92 said:
Dodge has a truck with a bed with side boxes. Think its called the Sportsmans model. I keep it simple, gun in the truck behind the seats and ammo in an ammo can tied to the bed. Untie the ammo can, go shoot, retie ammo can when done. Or buy a truck toolbox and keep the ammo there.

http://www.truckbox.com/images/chestboxesmulti-aluminummounted.jpg

Have it on my ram.

DanJo · Jul 28, 2016

I am not a lawyer, but her is the regulation:

U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 44 › § 926A
18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms

Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)
US Code
Notes
Authorities (CFR)
prev | next
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
(Added Pub. L. 99–360, § 1(a), July 8, 1986, 100 Stat. 766.)

Based upon the above, it seems to me as long as either the gun or ammo is in a locked container, you are legal. So, an locked ammo can with ammo should be OK, even in the cab of the truck.

swinokur · Jul 28, 2016

FOPA states that if no trunk EITHER the firearm OR the ammo must be in a locked case.

One or the other makes it legal

montoya32 · Jul 28, 2016

I commend your due diligence for asking, but people need to stop being so paranoid and apprehensive about things. As long as you take steps to follow the "spirit of the law" and do not conduct yourself in a malicious manner, you should be fine. If you are utilizing a pickup, separate the ammo from the gun and put the gun in a case.

davsco · Jul 28, 2016

montoya32 said:
As long as you take steps to follow the "spirit of the law" and do not conduct yourself in a malicious manner, you should be fine.

i will admit i am a little cavalier at times regarding following the "letter" of the law, but following the "spirit" of the law isn't necessarily following the law. surely any and all of us would hate prison time and/or losing 2a rights for getting it wrong. knowing the precise law is mandatory and then it's up to each of us to decide how strictly we want to abide.

RoboRay · Jul 28, 2016

people need to stop being so paranoid and apprehensive about things. As long as you take steps to follow the "spirit of the law" and stay the hell out of New Jersey, you should be fine.

.

Boondock Saint · Jul 28, 2016

RoboRay said:
.

people need to stop being so paranoid and apprehensive about things. As long as you take steps to follow the "spirit of the law" and stay the hell out of New Jersey, you should be fine.

After a shoot some years back in eastern PA, I accidentally got on the PA turnpike, and to my horror, was headed eastbound. I was absolutely traveling within the bounds of FOPA, but was under no circumstances going to cross the river into Jersey. I was literally prepared to jump the median if needed to avoid that place. Thankfully, there was one last exit and I was able to turn around safely.

davsco · Jul 28, 2016

yeah i really don't like doing matches in MD (sorry guys) but there is NFW i'm going anywhere near NJ or NY with or without guns in the vehicle.

pbharvey · Jul 28, 2016

swamplynx said:
Thinking about upgrading my SUV to a full-size 4-door truck, but the "separate compartment" aspect of FOPA and DC's transport laws has me concerned. In a car, your trunk is clearly your separate compartment so you transport there. In a SUV you clearly don't have a separate compartment, so you store in a locked container in the back. Here's where I get confused...

Is the bed of a truck considered a "separate compartment"? Case or no case I'd prefer to not transport in the bed. Is there any case law supporting one interpretation or the other?

montoya32 said:
I commend your due diligence for asking, but people need to stop being so paranoid and apprehensive about things. As long as you take steps to follow the "spirit of the law" and do not conduct yourself in a malicious manner, you should be fine. If you are utilizing a pickup, separate the ammo from the gun and put the gun in a case.

Paranoia is warranted in DC.

Remember this guy?
Shock verdict — Mark Witaschek guilty of possessing muzzleloader bullets in D.C.

Blaster229 · Jul 28, 2016

Boondock Saint said:
After a shoot some years back in eastern PA, I accidentally got on the PA turnpike, and to my horror, was headed eastbound. I was absolutely traveling within the bounds of FOPA, but was under no circumstances going to cross the river into Jersey. I was literally prepared to jump the median if needed to avoid that place. Thankfully, there was one last exit and I was able to turn around safely.

I remember you saying this. Not funny then I am sure, but you saying you were prepared to jump the median, it just funny right now.

I felt your panic.

Bertfish · Jul 28, 2016

montoya32 said:
I commend your due diligence for asking, but people need to stop being so paranoid and apprehensive about things. As long as you take steps to follow the "spirit of the law" and do not conduct yourself in a malicious manner, you should be fine. If you are utilizing a pickup, separate the ammo from the gun and put the gun in a case.

Given the current political regime (and possibly the next one) I am not sure trying to keep with the spirit is sufficient protection from prosecutors who are actively encouraged to prosecute law abiding citizens and ignore criminal acts.

We are unfortunately a persecuted group when certain political regimes are in power and have to act as aggressively as possible to protect ourselves.

swamplynx · Jul 28, 2016

pbharvey said:
Paranoia is warranted in DC.

Remember this guy?
Shock verdict — Mark Witaschek guilty of possessing muzzleloader bullets in D.C.

Right. Even though the language in the DC transport laws mirrors FOPA, I'm most acutely worried about transport through the District. I'm a DC resident, so they couldn't nail me on the registration side (unlike a non-resident driving through), but my gut says at a minimum a minor traffic stop would turn into a multi-hour fascist shakedown if MPD saw a locked hard case in the back of my cab.

Perhaps writing the AG for a letter of clarification??

As others have alluded to, I'm not too fond of loosing my freedom, job, clearance, or constitutionally enshrined rights because some jackboot doesn't like that I just blasted some sporting clays.

Tomcat · Jul 28, 2016

My Dodge truck has compartments under the back seats. I suppose if I wanted to use them for firearms I could figure out a way to lock them.

swinokur · Jul 28, 2016

not having either the ammo or the firearm a locked case is not following the spirit of the law.

It's breaking it. laws are written a certain way for a reason.

Courts deal in facts, not good intentions.

ETA FOPA only applies if crossing through a state other than your own.. trips that start and stop in MD follow the MD Statute 4-203 enclosed case or holster

MD AG opinions

swinokur · Jul 28, 2016

here's the DC law.

VI. Transporting Firearms
District transport law:
§ 22-4504.02. Lawful transportation of firearms.
(a) Any person who is not otherwise prohibited by the law from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be permitted to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry the firearm [see § 22-4504.01, above] to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry the firearm if the firearm is transported in accordance with this section.
(b) (1) If the transportation of the firearm is by a vehicle, the firearm shall be unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported shall be readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the transporting vehicle.
(2) If the transporting vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the driver's compartment, the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console, and the firearm shall be unloaded.
(c) If the transportation of the firearm is in a manner other than in a vehicle, the firearm shall be:
(1) Unloaded;
(2) Inside a locked container; and
(3) Separate from any ammunition.

FOPA and Pickup Truck?

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