HBAR build.

Tenhoff · Feb 26, 2015

So I'm moving back into MD from PA, and while I was in PA, I bought a stripped AR lower with intentions to build a new rifle. However, I never finished the build and only completed the lower. From what I've learned, I can't build a normal AR with this lower as a resident of MD. The two options I have would be to either build an HBAR or an AR pistol. Personally I would rather have a regular rifle, so HBAR is the closest match. I've heard that an HBAR has to have a fixed stock, can anyone confirm if this is true? also, this is the upper I was looking at going with. has anyone had experience with this brand upper?

http://www.surplusammo.com/saa-5-56-16-hbar-1-9-carbine-length-moe-upper-receiver-no-bcg-ch/

Jasonshooter · Feb 26, 2015

Most of the hbars for sale locally have adjustable stocks ...

BradMacc82 · Feb 26, 2015

Collapsible stock is fine. It was amended out of FSA2013.

dontpanic · Mar 5, 2015

Tenhoff said:
So I'm moving back into MD from PA, and while I was in PA, I bought a stripped AR lower with intentions to build a new rifle. However, I never finished the build and only completed the lower. From what I've learned, I can't build a normal AR with this lower as a resident of MD. The two options I have would be to either build an HBAR or an AR pistol. Personally I would rather have a regular rifle, so HBAR is the closest match. I've heard that an HBAR has to have a fixed stock, can anyone confirm if this is true? also, this is the upper I was looking at going with. has anyone had experience with this brand upper?

http://www.surplusammo.com/saa-5-56-16-hbar-1-9-carbine-length-moe-upper-receiver-no-bcg-ch/

If you bought the lower before 10/1/2013, you can use any barrel profile you want.

Pinecone · Mar 6, 2015

dontpanic said:
If you bought the lower before 10/1/2013, you can use any barrel profile you want.

MAYBE.

If you ask MSP you will get differing answers.

And doing what you say, could end up with you being the test case.

If you put a now banned upper on the lower BEFORE 10/1/13, creating an ALG, then you are perfectly OK to return it to that condition.

But if it was never assembled with an upper, you are untested ground.

The two sides are:

1) It is a pre-ban lower, so you can build anything you want.

2) It may be a pre-ban lower, but it was not made into an ALG before the ban, and therefore not legal to make it into one now. A stripped lower is NOT a rifle, pistol, ALG, or SBR, until you assemble it. So pre- or post-ban does not matter, what matters is WHEN you make it into a banned configuration. Remember, the law grandfathers previously owned ALGs. And a lower is NOT an ALG.

BUFF7MM · Mar 6, 2015

Pinecone said:
MAYBE.

If you ask MSP you will get differing answers.

And doing what you say, could end up with you being the test case.

If you put a now banned upper on the lower BEFORE 10/1/13, creating an ALG, then you are perfectly OK to return it to that condition.

But if it was never assembled with an upper, you are untested ground.

The two sides are:

1) It is a pre-ban lower, so you can build anything you want.

2) It may be a pre-ban lower, but it was not made into an ALG before the ban, and therefore not legal to make it into one now. A stripped lower is NOT a rifle, pistol, ALG, or SBR, until you assemble it. So pre- or post-ban does not matter, what matters is WHEN you make it into a banned configuration. Remember, the law grandfathers previously owned ALGs. And a lower is NOT an ALG.

How much tinfoil do you have wrapped around your head, it's got to be a truckload with an answer like that. Possibly an LSD flashback.
How in the **** would anybody know if you did or didn't have an upper on it, maybe if questioned you'd just say, "I sold the upper I had on it".

TheGunnyRet · Mar 6, 2015

Less the Banter with regard to pre-ban, post ban? The upper looks like it's GTG, if it was me with regard to the current law stay with an HBAR Profile, better safe than sorry...JMO

Pinecone · Mar 6, 2015

Buff7mm said:
How much tinfoil do you have wrapped around your head, it's got to be a truckload with an answer like that. Possibly an LSD flashback.
How in the **** would anybody know if you did or didn't have an upper on it, maybe if questioned you'd just say, "I sold the upper I had on it".

Hmm, maybe because you talked about it online?

Or you did not buy a pencil barreled upper until 2015?

Or maybe some people just don't want to do illegal things. Especially ones that can get your firearms collection confiscated and run up HUGE legal bills.

Otherwise, go for it.

As always, YOUR choice. But I guess you just want to tell people what YOU think is right, no matter if it is right, wrong, or not clear.

OrbitalEllipses · Mar 6, 2015

Pinecone said:
Hmm, maybe because you talked about it online?

Or you did not buy a pencil barreled upper until 2015?

Or maybe some people just don't want to do illegal things. Especially ones that can get your firearms collection confiscated and run up HUGE legal bills.

Otherwise, go for it.

As always, YOUR choice. But I guess you just want to tell people what YOU think is right, no matter if it is right, wrong, or not clear.

Cash transactions between private parties don't often come with receipts.

BUFF7MM · Mar 6, 2015

OrbitalEllipses said:
Cash transactions between private parties don't often come with receipts.

Exactly, I need to invest in an aluminum foil company, as much as that guy uses I'd be able to retire early. Holy cow!!!

dontpanic · Mar 6, 2015

Buff7mm said:
Exactly, I need to invest in an aluminum foil company, as much as that guy uses I'd be able to retire early. Holy cow!!!

Mike · Mar 6, 2015

Well, FWIW, the OP along with his face in the avatar here, has now documented his situation. IANAL but I'd not build anything currently banned in MD if I was moving here.

Anyway, isn't an HBAR better for heat dissipation than some pencil or other thin barrel upper? I am also not a gunsmith so I'm asking.

amoebicmagician · Mar 6, 2015

nothing wrong with a good HBAR

There are some really nice HBAR profiles out there, some that resemble the SOCOM profle... sort of.

Point is, they are light and accurate.

Engage has their own HBAR profile that I've seen in action, and it's pretty awesome

Vile Shadow · Mar 7, 2015

Buff7mm said:
Exactly, I need to invest in an aluminum foil company, as much as that guy uses I'd be able to retire early. Holy cow!!!

Our friend must also be the founder of Reynolds Aluminum. :lol2:

Tenhoff said:
So I'm moving back into MD from PA, and while I was in PA, I bought a stripped AR lower with intentions to build a new rifle. However, I never finished the build and only completed the lower. From what I've learned, I can't build a normal AR with this lower as a resident of MD. The two options I have would be to either build an HBAR or an AR pistol. Personally I would rather have a regular rifle, so HBAR is the closest match. I've heard that an HBAR has to have a fixed stock, can anyone confirm if this is true? also, this is the upper I was looking at going with. has anyone had experience with this brand upper?

http://www.surplusammo.com/saa-5-56-16-hbar-1-9-carbine-length-moe-upper-receiver-no-bcg-ch/

If you owned the lower before 10-1-13, build it into whatever the hell you want, as it's preban.

Remember, just the lower is considered the actual firearm.

boss66tcode · Mar 7, 2015

Pinecone said:
Hmm, maybe because you talked about it online?

Or you did not buy a pencil barreled upper until 2015?

Or maybe some people just don't want to do illegal things. Especially ones that can get your firearms collection confiscated and run up HUGE legal bills.

Otherwise, go for it.

As always, YOUR choice. But I guess you just want to tell people what YOU think is right, no matter if it is right, wrong, or not clear.

Buff7mm said:
How much tinfoil do you have wrapped around your head, it's got to be a truckload with an answer like that. Possibly an LSD flashback.
How in the **** would anybody know if you did or didn't have an upper on it, maybe if questioned you'd just say, "I sold the upper I had on it".

This being the Greater Nations Capital region there are a lot of gun owners out there who have a GREAT deal to lose by mis-interpreting the law, even if they are right. Everyone has a different comfort level with risk. I don't know the OP nor Pinecone but anyone with any sort of a security clearance out here won't risk even a misinformed officer writing a citation or doing a lock up over a firearms violation even if the officer is in the wrong.

You will also be hard pressed to find an FFL willing to stick his/her neck out in our current political climate, and I can't blame them, their livelihood can depend on it.

Boom Boom · Mar 7, 2015

OP, since the upper you're asking about is an H-BAR, it's good to go no matter when you got the lower. Collapsible stocks are not part of MD law and are good to go.

annihilation-time · Mar 7, 2015

I agree with Pinecone. It could be illegal to build ANY virgin stripped lower into a non-HBAR long gun configuration. No one really knows. There hasn't been any real confirmation or opinion. I'm sure we will find out one day, but I'd hate to be the guy waiting in jail to find out.

gabe72 · Mar 7, 2015

Just curious then how did all of those class 3 receivers get made right up to the cutoff in may 1986 such as the stemple,or sten tubes then fully assembled and sold later?

dontpanic · Mar 7, 2015

gabe72 said:
Just curious then how did all of those class 3 receivers get made right up to the cutoff in may 1986 such as the stemple,or sten tubes then fully assembled and sold later?

They paid $200 a stamp for each and every one.

I get ypur point though. I personally built all my pre ban lowers into pistols first then into pencil barrels.I very sure everyone did. Some people probably even borrowed uppers from friends to do this.

Now they are buying thier own.

Pinecone · Mar 7, 2015

boss66tcode said:
This being the Greater Nations Capital region there are a lot of gun owners out there who have a GREAT deal to lose by mis-interpreting the law, even if they are right. Everyone has a different comfort level with risk. I don't know the OP nor Pinecone but anyone with any sort of a security clearance out here won't risk even a misinformed officer writing a citation or doing a lock up over a firearms violation even if the officer is in the wrong.

You will also be hard pressed to find an FFL willing to stick his/her neck out in our current political climate, and I can't blame them, their livelihood can depend on it.

EXACTLY.

And telling people, go ahead, it is legal, is NOT doing them any favors.

I tell both sides, and let EACH PERSON make up their mind. As there is NO solid legal guidance on this. Even MSP will give you different answers if you ask more than once.

HBAR build.

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