THE STAY IS LIFTED! effective in 14 days

and do not forget to send MSI a little something for their hard work.

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I have and do.

I just don't see any change in Maryland's processing. They are still not "shall issue". They are still using the same "unconstitutional" "disrectionary" descion making on determining who/what/where/when and why a subject can execute their fundatmental rights. If I havent broken the law or been determined to be insane, why can't I get a permit just for asking for it, or, better yet, just legally carry a firearm without any permit or registration process at all?
See my angle??
There's no win here. Look deeper. Okay, so, you eventually DO get a permit, do you really feel you needed to go through the whole damn process to exercise your right? 3 reference checks, face to face interviews, et al???
That's not a right, that's a privalege that Maryland has decided to grant you at their descrestion.

MDresident said:

I have and do.

I just don't see any change in Maryland's processing. They are still not "shall issue". They are still using the same "unconstitutional" "disrectionary" descion making on determining who/what/where/when and why a subject can execute their fundatmental rights. If I havent broken the law or been determined to be insane, why can't I get a permit just for asking for it, or, better yet, just legally carry a firearm without any permit or registration process at all?
See my angle??

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Yes

The state is play the game "LA LA, I can't hear you", until the CA4 issues an opinion.

MDresident said:

I have and do.

I just don't see any change in Maryland's processing. They are still not "shall issue". They are still using the same "unconstitutional" "disrectionary" descion making on determining who/what/where/when and why a subject can execute their fundatmental rights. If I havent broken the law or been determined to be insane, why can't I get a permit just for asking for it, or, better yet, just legally carry a firearm without any permit or registration process at all?
See my angle??
There's no win here. Look deeper. Okay, so, you eventually DO get a permit, do you really feel you needed to go through the whole damn process to exercise your right? 3 reference checks, face to face interviews, et al???
That's not a right, that's a privalege that Maryland has decided to grant you at their descrestion.

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Maryland is most likely going to have a big change in their permitting scheme. They cannot possibly devote the manpower to calling your references and doing an interview. Let's watch and see how this unfolds.

Maryland is most likely going to have a big change in their permitting scheme. They cannot possibly devote the manpower to calling your references and doing an interview. Let's watch and see how this unfolds.

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Why would they change anything?
They haven't been instructed to do so. Their interviews, surveys, reference checks etal are still permissable! It's really getting siily.
All the ruling did was remove good and substantial reason. Nothing changed all their third party interviews and descrestionary descisions based on interviews and what not. It's still discrestionary!!! Nothing has changed!!
This is all a big game and MD wins. MD flipps the bird at the constitustion as does the current white house.
Yawn.

MDresident said:

That's not a right, that's a privalege that Maryland has decided to grant you at their descrestion.

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I like to think of it this way....The permit is a "get out of jail free card" for exercising my 2A rights. It is a "Don't harass me for excersizing my rights" card. Is it BS, yes.
Is it a start on the path to Constitutional carry yes.

I like to think of it this way....The permit is a "get out of jail free card" for exercising my 2A rights. It is a "Don't harass me for excersizing my rights" card. Is it BS, yes.
Is it a start on the path to Constitutional carry yes.

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Yes, but, as you can see, Maryland is still determining your "privilages" and "rights", not the US constituion. We need to be clear on this fact.
Nothing has changed here.
Maryland is still in full control.
Might beast they are!

We must never feel that a laxing of state restrictions as a fulfilment or entitlement of constitional rights.

I don't mean to be a downer on this subject, as I feel I should be able to execercise my 2nd admendment right, but, those that think this right has finnalyy been extended to maryland residents are sadly mistaken. It just isn't so. Despite ANY federal court decision or ruling, it just didn't happen.

There are no more discretionary decisions. The interviews are only to ensure that you are not mentally instable or prone to violence. Since you are providing them the references and its not them just interviewing random people in your life you should be good to go.

Some people won't believe until they see the permits, but seriously.... things are happening and things are changing.

Lets not forget that the judge did say that the existence of the right is all the reason we need. I don't believe that MSP is confused about what the judge means here. Unless you are prohibited or demonstrate obviously impaired mental function, you are going to get your permit. I actually don't mind the idea of an interview, as long as it isn't armchair psychoanalysis. If someone can't pass the hello test, maybe its reasonable to look into it before issuing a permit.

Maestro Pistolero said:

Lets not forget that the judge did say that the existence of the right is all the reason we need. I don't believe that MSP is confused about what the judge means here. Unless you are prohibited or demonstrate obviously impaired mental function, you are going to get your permit. I actually don't mind the idea of an interview, as long as it isn't armchair psychoanalysis. If someone can't pass the hello test, maybe its reasonable to look into it before issuing a permit.

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dito.. My inteview of about 1 hour went extremely well in my view.
just waiting on the 8th to roll around.

The interview was an effing Hour?

What the hell did they ask you?

pcfixer said:

dito.. My inteview of about 1 hour went extremely well in my view.
just waiting on the 8th to roll around.

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Akumanubis said:

The interview was an effing Hour?

What the hell did they ask you?

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No, a normal interview is about 10-15 minutes; his went longer because he and the investigator had a lot in common and just chatted. You can read his entertaining experience in another thread. His experience is not typical, they usually don't go this long, but he had extenuating circumstances and the trooper ended up asking to go to his house, it's a long and colorful story.

I'll go out on a limb and say, I don't mind the interviews, I think it's a reasonable and prudent thing for the police to do. Sure these troopers aren't psycho-analyst, and no one can absolutely identify a clever crazy someone (violent type), or predict how they may act in the future. But every State Trooper I've met has been pretty level headed and I'm betting a pretty good judge of peoples character.

I was interviewed a few years ago, before I joined this forum in fact and walking out I thought, this was really unnecessary, but this will probably prevent gang-bangers and obvious nut-jobs from getting permits. The reference interviews on the other hand, those can easily be faked by a perp, and why call someone's spouse/spouse-like companion? They will tell you what they want you to hear that day; and any spouse with a real problem would either be intimidated to say whatever or have already made a complaint, or no longer be a spouse. Seems kind of silly to interview spouses. I hear for security clearances they don't interview them for these same reasons.

In fact, anyone that already has a security clearance shouldn't have to go through this 'lesser' police check, once they verify an applicant has already passed the much more thorough national security clearance check.

pcfixer said:

dito.. My inteview of about 1 hour went extremely well in my view.
just waiting on the 8th to roll around.

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And pray that this emergency stay don't go into effect.

Minuteman said:

I'll go out on a limb and say, I don't mind the interviews, I think it's a reasonable and prudent thing for the police to do. Sure these troopers aren't psycho-analyst, and no one can absolutely identify a clever crazy someone (violent type), or predict how they may act in the future. But every State Trooper I've met has been pretty level headed and I'm betting a pretty good judge of peoples character.

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I agree, I did not mind my interview but one way they could cut things is to have it for first time permits and not renewals.

I get why you thought the interview was ok, but I do have a problem with them. can a trooper recommend non-issuance based on the interview? For the simple fact they didn't like the interviewee or think they had good enough answers. Also, I have no problem with people if a lower socio-economic class getting permits, what makes them "gang bangers"in your mind though?

The only problem I see with interviews is if the MSP interviewer has an unfounded reason for a recommendation for a denial, that starts to smack of G & S all over again IMO.

I think MSP will have to modify the process to avoid stepping on the G & S issue again. not to mention a need to lessen the workload and processing time. They don't want to get hauled before Judge Legg because of a bad judgement call.

Minuteman said:

...anyone that already has a security clearance shouldn't have to go through this 'lesser' police check, once they verify an applicant has already passed the much more thorough national security clearance check.

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Dang, missed the boat again!

Gave up the clearances in '95 in favor of spending the rest of my time trying to get a damned permit.

Maybe I shouldn't have been so eager to retire.

MDRESIDENT seems to be assuming that references will cause a denial. I would love to even be able to say I got that far. This case is and was about step one. If G&S is gone at least I can apply for and possible get a carry permit. That has never even been an option for most of us tax payers to this great state.

swinokur said:

The only problem I see with interviews is if the MSP interviewer has an unfounded reason for a recommendation for a denial, that starts to smack of G & S all over again IMO...

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Good point, hey, I'm just using my outside voice, I'm not so convinced that interviews are the right way to go, I'm just saying that after mine, I thought it might cut down on obvious criminals getting permits. Rare as it might be an interview would uncover this:



When I think of responsible gun owner retiree, I think of this:

rambling_one said:

...Gave up the clearances in ...trying to get a damned permit.
Maybe I shouldn't have been so eager to retire.

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Also fella's, Let's not forget:

Interviews, not an exact science...

MDresident said:

Yes, but, as you can see, Maryland is still determining your "privilages" and "rights", not the US constituion. We need to be clear on this fact.
Nothing has changed here.
Maryland is still in full control.
Might beast they are!

We must never feel that a laxing of state restrictions as a fulfilment or entitlement of constitional rights.

I don't mean to be a downer on this subject, as I feel I should be able to execercise my 2nd admendment right, but, those that think this right has finnalyy been extended to maryland residents are sadly mistaken. It just isn't so. Despite ANY federal court decision or ruling, it just didn't happen.

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Wrong.

If Maryland were in charge, they wouldn't be facing this issue. The Woollard case challenged a single portion of Maryland law. Just one. That is all. Nobody challenged anything else. Woollard won. We won. Absent a setback, you can get a permit.

There is no such thing as 'Constitutional Carry', unless a legislature chooses to enact something with that name. The Supreme Court laid some lines, and love it or hate it, the Constitutional Carry philosophy only fits within it if a legislature decides to make it so.

There is a low-bar baseline. We are fighting to get there now, in the courts. There is also a high-bar "should be" that will take more. Today;s fight is not my view of what should be. It is the view of what nearly all agree is the current state, with this court. Denying those facts is idiocy.

Permits will be constitutional. So will some fees. So will time/place/manner restrictions within certain bounds. The Supreme Court is not going to reverse the machine-gun restrictions.

Some things will take legislative action. We cannot be successful until we identify the things we want, and the way we are to get them. Wishful thinking is for fools. If you want the thing people call "Constitutional Carry", you had better be willing to work your ass off legislatively to get it.

As for Maryland, we have come far, but we are nowhere near the level many want. I don't want to hear people whining about the wins and how it could have gone further. I'd rather people take what we get in a step-wise fashion, consolidate that win, and then move on to the next issue.

To that end, if there is no emergency stay granted, people should get their apps in and get their permits. The more we have, the better we will be. In politics, strength comes in numbers. Don't kid yourself, the political fight is far from over. We will need numbers this next session.


EDIT: Re-reading later on, I did not intend the word "idiocy" to apply to MDResident. He's not an idiot. I was thinking more along the lines of all the people out there pushing for solutions than cannot be had. And it was literary flourish. Nobody PM'd me or complained about my language. I am self-correcting after the fact.