shotgun/straight walled cartridges: what are you using?

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  • leomort

    Active Member
    Jul 31, 2020
    199
    I moved from out of state to Montgomery county and seen the deer hunting regs require either shotgun or straight-walled cartridges.

    If I'm understanding the regs, a handgun needs minimum of 6" barrel and generated 700 ft-lb energy at muzzle. If straight walled in rifle, needs 1200 ft-lb energy at muzzle?

    So what are you guys using? I don't have anything that meets the requirements. I don't care for recoil of slug guns.

    I don't think a 6" barrel 357 mag will make the energy requirements, correct? So I'll be looking at 41mag or 44mag handgun.


    Being southpaw, not sure of my rifle options.
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    I moved from out of state to Montgomery county and seen the deer hunting regs require either shotgun or straight-walled cartridges.

    If I'm understanding the regs, a handgun needs minimum of 6" barrel and generated 700 ft-lb energy at muzzle. If straight walled in rifle, needs 1200 ft-lb energy at muzzle?

    So what are you guys using? I don't have anything that meets the requirements. I don't care for recoil of slug guns.

    I don't think a 6" barrel 357 mag will make the energy requirements, correct? So I'll be looking at 41mag or 44mag handgun.


    Being southpaw, not sure of my rifle options.

    Yes, a 6" barrel 357 mag or 16" 357 mag will meet the requirements.

    357mag.png


    http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

    Corbon, Underwood, and some others make 357 hunting loads that will meet the energy requirements.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Yes, a 6" barrel 357 mag or 16" 357 mag will meet the requirements.

    357mag.png


    http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

    Corbon, Underwood, and some others make 357 hunting loads that will meet the energy requirements.

    This. It’s a little easier to do with a 6-8” .357 handgun to make 700ft-lbs. several loads will. 16-20” rifle in .357 is harder. Only a couple of factory loads will get you there. Buffalo bore also has a 158gr XTP load that’ll get to about 1300ft-lbs out of a 16”.

    Hand loading is a bit easier to get there. Lil gun can get you there with heavier bullets. If I remember correctly H110 will with lighter bullets.

    Sure, it barely meets the minimum, but the minimums are kind of overkill anyway. Out of a rifle, a heavier 357 will do just fine on deer to 100yds. Which is past the distance most can hunt in Maryland unless you’ve got farm fields to hunt.

    If you DID think you’d be hunting big open spaces, I’d go 44 magnum rifle or 450 bushmaster. Either of those can handle 200yds just fine. 41 magnum probably could also, but I am less familiar with loading that cartridge.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,665
    Not Far Enough from the City
    I moved from out of state to Montgomery county and seen the deer hunting regs require either shotgun or straight-walled cartridges.

    If I'm understanding the regs, a handgun needs minimum of 6" barrel and generated 700 ft-lb energy at muzzle. If straight walled in rifle, needs 1200 ft-lb energy at muzzle?

    So what are you guys using? I don't have anything that meets the requirements. I don't care for recoil of slug guns.

    I don't think a 6" barrel 357 mag will make the energy requirements, correct? So I'll be looking at 41mag or 44mag handgun.


    Being southpaw, not sure of my rifle options.

    Your handgun barrel length and handgun/rifle muzzle energy specs are correct for Maryland as mentioned.

    350 Legend is a straight wall that has gotten a lot of press since its intro a couple of years ago. I have no personal experience with the cartridge. It is available in a number of platforms, is said to typically have recoil akin to or somewhat less than .243 Winchester, and will have energy that typically surpasses the .30-30 Winchester cartridge. Just comparison to a couple of familiar and traditional deer cartridges, as neither .243 nor .30-30 are straight wall of course.

    If you're looking for a lefty bolt action, Savage makes one in their Axis offering. There may be others now as well.
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    Ive been hunting all year with 350 legend. Recoil is subjective, it has the same recoil as 30-30, 7.62x39, 300 blk etc. Perception depends on your loadout. If you rifle is 20lbs, there is no recoil lol. I've killed 5 deer now with it, plan to kill a bunch more. I have started a few threads on it. I like it, but semi auto rifles can be finicky (depends who makes it and whether they have figured out to use a proper feed ramp). Bolts are pretty reliable.

    If its for this season, on public lands (no crop damage permit etc) I would go with what you have now. Hunting ammo is between scarce and unobtanium and the firearms season starts the 28th. If you order ammo online today, you might get it by next monday. By the time you get a new rifle*, get ammo shipped, get it sighted in, you may or may not make it for the 28th. Your odds of killing something drop precipitously after the 1st day when the orange army files into the woods.

    So if you have a 357 mag, or 44 mag, yeet it.

    If its for next year, different situation.



    *new pistol requires HQL and 7 day wait. Unless you have your HQL you wont make day 1.
     

    JB62

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 5, 2013
    1,498
    Annapolis
    I have been using 450 bUshmaster with great results. I hear good things about 350 legend but have no personal experience. They are tough to find but Henry does make a single shot option in both calibers that would fit the need of a south paw.
     

    delaware_export

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 10, 2018
    3,142
    Most of the folks I recently hunted with in Delaware have switched to 450, iirc. A couple to the 350.

    Being shotgun only until fairly recently, it’s a switch. Some folks haven’t decided to make the move yet. For me, it’s money and the fact in only hunt 2-3 days of year. No longer an instate hunter there.

    If I were still there, I’d probably invest in one, but being that we hunt woods, thick pines, quite a bit, I’d probably have both near by on hunt days. That and deer drives … quick sighting on moving targets. Still keeps the shotguns in rotation.

    Landowner says Buckshot only on drives.
     

    leomort

    Active Member
    Jul 31, 2020
    199
    Yeah, getting use to each states game laws can take some time. When I use to hunt in PA, semiauto (rifle and handgun) were illegal to hunt with, not sure if that's changed since I left.

    In Indiana, straight wall cartridges were allowed and the 358 hoosier was develop for the legal requirements. They were debating whether to allow high power rifles when I left. I had 44mag Ruger Redhawk stainless with 5.5" barrel that I sold to person who wanted it more than I did. I think Indiana require 5" barrel on their handguns to be hunted.

    I only have 4" barrel 357mag GP100, but have all the reloading components for it. So cheapest route maybe to purchase 6" barrel 357mag.
     

    Harrys

    Short Round
    Jul 12, 2014
    3,362
    SOMD
    I moved from out of state to Montgomery county and seen the deer hunting regs require either shotgun or straight-walled cartridges.

    If I'm understanding the regs, a handgun needs minimum of 6" barrel and generated 700 ft-lb energy at muzzle. If straight walled in rifle, needs 1200 ft-lb energy at muzzle?

    So what are you guys using? I don't have anything that meets the requirements. I don't care for recoil of slug guns.

    I don't think a 6" barrel 357 mag will make the energy requirements, correct? So I'll be looking at 41mag or 44mag handgun.


    Being southpaw, not sure of my rifle options.



    For my pistol Magnum Research BFR 7.5" revolver barrel .500 S&W magnum w/ 370 grain WFNGC Hard Cast at over 1600 FPS

    For my Rifle 45/70 w/ 300 1800 FPS, 325 1900 FPS or 350 grain LFNGC hard cast at 1700FPS

    Was at MASR yesterday shot 60 rounds of .500 S&W at 25 and 50 yards all within center mass free hand no rest or stick.

    South paw also hence the revolver
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    350 legend is basically 357 Max, but without the rim.

    I’d really love to get a threaded lever gun rechambered for Max
     

    Pale Ryder

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 12, 2009
    6,233
    Millersville
    Someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Mo Co have a max rifle caliber provision of less than .25? If that is still in effect, OP will still need to go the SG or ML route there, or handgun.
    I’ll be using a Marlin 44 Mag on the eastern shore, maybe the 12 gauge once or twice, and a 30-06 in western counties.
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    Someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Mo Co have a max rifle caliber provision of less than .25? If that is still in effect, OP will still need to go the SG or ML route there, or handgun.
    I’ll be using a Marlin 44 Mag on the eastern shore, maybe the 12 gauge once or twice, and a 30-06 in western counties.

    ??

    no.

    The regs say nothing about this and the central region public areas, in MoCo, just say "SWC".
     

    Clark W. Griswold

    Active Member
    Oct 5, 2009
    929
    Someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Mo Co have a max rifle caliber provision of less than .25? If that is still in effect, OP will still need to go the SG or ML route there, or handgun.
    I’ll be using a Marlin 44 Mag on the eastern shore, maybe the 12 gauge once or twice, and a 30-06 in western counties.

    Montgomery county law does prohibit rifles or handguns larger than .25. There is also an exception for hunting when shooting at game on the ground or when target shooting at targets on the ground that will not deflect a bullet. That exception is conspicuously absent from the “weapons law” pamphlet the county puts out. I’m sure it’s an innocent oversight
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    I used to have this pamphlet memorized. Have not hunted in Montgomery County in 15 years now and after reading through this tripe, think I will continue that trend. Leave the deer for the MoCo motorists to kill.

    http://www.mymcpnews.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/weapons-law-brochure-on-line-format.pdf

    Must have repealed it. Its not part of the code and DNR clearly says SWC is fine. I emailed DNR. 350 legend and 450 bushmaster are fine at Schaffer farm tract for example, which is in MoCo.
     

    Slackdaddy

    My pronouns: Iva/Bigun
    Jan 1, 2019
    5,845
    H&R 20ga USH with 2-7x32 scope,, gets the job done plenty well with 1 shot, have never need a "follow-up" shot while using this gun in 10+ years.
    Besides, I bought 2 cases of it's preferred sabot slugs last winter.
    That said,, I would love to be using a light weight 44 mag carbine
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Must have repealed it. Its not part of the code and DNR clearly says SWC is fine. I emailed DNR. 350 legend and 450 bushmaster are fine at Schaffer farm tract for example, which is in MoCo.

    If you cannot kill deer around Schaefer Farms, then you are asleep. Killed 8 does one morning there. Could have probably killed 20 that morning, but I already knew I had my work cut out for me with 8 down. Did not finish gutting, dragging, etc. until it was dark and I started the process at 9:00 am. Not a single day I hunted that area that I did not kill a deer.

    You should have a great time hunting there.

    Also, what must have been repealed? The .25 caliber limitation? It has been "adjusted":

    Sec. 57-5. Discharge of guns outside the urban area.
    (a) Prohibition. Except as provided in subsection (c)(1) through (c)(6), outside the urban area, a person, other than a peace officer or employee of the Maryland Department of Natural Resources performing official duties, must not:
    (1) discharge a gun:
    (A) onto, across, or within 50 yards of a public road;
    (B) onto or across property located within 50 yards of a public road;
    (C) into or within the safety zone (150 yards of a building or camp designed for human occupancy) without the owner or occupant's written consent; or
    (C) from, onto, or across public or private property without the owner or occupant's written consent;
    (2) discharge a full metal jacketed bullet of any caliber from a gun; or
    (3) except as provided in subsection (b), discharge any fixed ammunition of a caliber higher than .25 caliber from a rifle or pistol.
    (b) Exception - High Caliber Ammunition. A person may discharge fixed ammunition of a caliber higher than .25 from a rifle or pistol at:
    (A) legal game or varmints on the ground
    ; or
    (B) a target on or near the ground that will not deflect a bullet.
    (c) Other Exceptions. Except as provided in Sections 57-7 and 57-11, a person may discharge a gun:
    (1) on any indoor or outdoor target, trap, skeet, or shooting range that the Firearm Safety Committee has inspected and approved in writing;
    (2) in a private basement or cellar target range;
    (3) when necessary to protect life or property;
    (4) to kill a dangerous animal;
    (5) for discharge of blank cartridges in musical and theatrical performances, parades, or sporting events;
    (6) for salutes by firing squads at military funerals; or
    (7) under a deer damage control permit issued by the Maryland Department of Natural Resources. (1981 L.M.C., ch. 42, § 1; CY 1991 L.M.C., ch. 21, § 1; 1997 L.M.C., ch. 14, §1; 2001 L.M.C., ch. 11, § 1; 2005 L.M.C., ch. 24, § 1; 2007

    https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/montgomerycounty/latest/montgomeryco_md/0-0-0-27302
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    If you cannot kill deer around Schaefer Farms, then you are asleep. Killed 8 does one morning there. Could have probably killed 20 that morning, but I already knew I had my work cut out for me with 8 down. Did not finish gutting, dragging, etc. until it was dark and I started the process at 9:00 am. Not a single day I hunted that area that I did not kill a deer.

    You should have a great time hunting there.

    Also, what must have been repealed? The .25 caliber limitation? It has been "adjusted":

    Sec. 57-5. Discharge of guns outside the urban area.
    (a) Prohibition. Except as provided in subsection (c)(1) through (c)(6), outside the urban area, a person, other than a peace officer or employee of the Maryland Department of Natural Resources performing official duties, must not:
    (1) discharge a gun:
    (A) onto, across, or within 50 yards of a public road;
    (B) onto or across property located within 50 yards of a public road;
    (C) into or within the safety zone (150 yards of a building or camp designed for human occupancy) without the owner or occupant's written consent; or
    (C) from, onto, or across public or private property without the owner or occupant's written consent;
    (2) discharge a full metal jacketed bullet of any caliber from a gun; or
    (3) except as provided in subsection (b), discharge any fixed ammunition of a caliber higher than .25 caliber from a rifle or pistol.
    (b) Exception - High Caliber Ammunition. A person may discharge fixed ammunition of a caliber higher than .25 from a rifle or pistol at:
    (A) legal game or varmints on the ground
    ; or
    (B) a target on or near the ground that will not deflect a bullet.
    (c) Other Exceptions. Except as provided in Sections 57-7 and 57-11, a person may discharge a gun:
    (1) on any indoor or outdoor target, trap, skeet, or shooting range that the Firearm Safety Committee has inspected and approved in writing;
    (2) in a private basement or cellar target range;
    (3) when necessary to protect life or property;
    (4) to kill a dangerous animal;
    (5) for discharge of blank cartridges in musical and theatrical performances, parades, or sporting events;
    (6) for salutes by firing squads at military funerals; or
    (7) under a deer damage control permit issued by the Maryland Department of Natural Resources. (1981 L.M.C., ch. 42, § 1; CY 1991 L.M.C., ch. 21, § 1; 1997 L.M.C., ch. 14, §1; 2001 L.M.C., ch. 11, § 1; 2005 L.M.C., ch. 24, § 1; 2007

    https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/montgomerycounty/latest/montgomeryco_md/0-0-0-27302

    Given how many deer I see on the roads, i'd argue they fall under dangerous animals.

    to the original point tho, SWC above .25 cal are legal in MoCo.

    Have never hunted Schaefer Farms, not sure I plan to. I grabbed that example from the list of places in the Central Region pamphlet they send ppl with the permit. Sounds like lots of deer, maybe I should hunt it.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Given how many deer I see on the roads, i'd argue they fall under dangerous animals.

    to the original point tho, SWC above .25 cal are legal in MoCo.

    Have never hunted Schaefer Farms, not sure I plan to. I grabbed that example from the list of places in the Central Region pamphlet they send ppl with the permit. Sounds like lots of deer, maybe I should hunt it.

    I got to hunt Grey Rock Ranch right next to the Schaefer trails on crop damage permits. Because of the bike trails there, we only got to hunt until 10:00 am so that riders could use the trails. Always used my Benelli SBE with an ER Shaw fully rifled barrel, 3-9x Burris Fullfield scope, and Federal Barnes X bullet sabots. Seemed to work just fine for me. Oh yeah, I have a mercury recoil reducer in the stock and for sabots I would change out the stock mag cap for one with a mercury recoil reducer in it.

    Back to the crux of the matter, straight wall cartridges of any caliber are legal for hunting in MoCo. Thought I saw where muzzleloaders are not. Is that correct?
     

    camo556

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,634
    I got to hunt Grey Rock Ranch right next to the Schaefer trails on crop damage permits. Because of the bike trails there, we only got to hunt until 10:00 am so that riders could use the trails. Always used my Benelli SBE with an ER Shaw fully rifled barrel, 3-9x Burris Fullfield scope, and Federal Barnes X bullet sabots. Seemed to work just fine for me. Oh yeah, I have a mercury recoil reducer in the stock and for sabots I would change out the stock mag cap for one with a mercury recoil reducer in it.

    Back to the crux of the matter, straight wall cartridges of any caliber are legal for hunting in MoCo. Thought I saw where muzzleloaders are not. Is that correct?

    i dont hunt ML so i've never looked.
     

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