MoCo Minimum Wage... $15

ToolAA · Nov 7, 2017

As we have seen in other cities and counties who have passed similar measures the artificial wage rate usually increases prices for the basic services most in demand for the very low income persons that the laws are supposed to benefit. Food service, childcare, store clerks ect cost increases are directly passed on to the low income customers.

Additionally business will be less tolerant of marginal employees, since they are forced to pay more they will weed out the dead wood. Employees who miss a lot of time, show up late, ect. Opting for higher caliber staff if available.

Boom Boom · Nov 7, 2017

ToolAA said:
Opting for higher caliber staff if available.

Said another way, opting for fewer and fewer staff to whatever extent possible. As already mentioned, expect automation with a vengeance.

davsco · Nov 7, 2017

ADR said:
No I fully inderstood the point just as I understood the attitude it was made with and the ultimate purpose which was to be self important by essentially trash talking everyone who may be in a situation where they have such a job. I'm not even saying I think it's necessarily a wise choice to set it at $15 myself but I get tired of the chest thumping, smack talking, self righteous bullsh!t.

Not a damn person, myself included, is any better than someone working in fast food, sweeping parking lots, taking out trash, etc...

no attitude, chest pumping or self righteousness was intended or implied. by 'better' i meant having more skills and abilities, which generally do lead to higher compensation. who is going to invest their time and money in learning a trade or furthering their education towards a $30k or $40k job when they can do none of that and get $30k right out of the gate thanks to .gov.

Boom Boom · Nov 7, 2017

davsco said:
who is going to invest their time and money in learning a trade or furthering their education towards a $30k or $40k job when they can do none of that and get $30k right out of the gate thanks to .gov.

People attending college 4-6 years for degrees in liberal arts and social work.

Klunatic · Nov 7, 2017

I have heard all this BS before. Sorry the minimum wage is for low/no skilled workers. I started working at a gas station at 14 pumping gas for $2.25/hr. I got my 1st raise in 45 days and I have never worked for anything close to minimum wage since. If one asserts themselves, learns and works hard, no matter the job, they will be rewarded with higher pay. All this bill will do is shrink the hiring pool and drive up unemployment. It will also drive up the cost for services like day care. Higher minimum wages are a temporary effect at best, that is why they have to keep raising it. Artificially high wages will drive up costs faster for everyone eventually negating the benefit of the higher wage.

Way to go Moco Comrade, I can't wait until my kids graduate high school, this state is doing everything it can to drive me out.

MigraineMan · Nov 7, 2017

outrider58 said:
"From each according to his ability, to each upon his needs..."

The People's Republic of Montgomery County

No, no, no. That actually has some sense behind it (albeit in an "ideal" world.)

MoCo is more like:
"From each according to his ability; to each according to some arbitrary-but-trendy rules the ruling-elites voted on after reading about them in People magazine."

Oh, and "Damn the consequences! Full speed ahead!"

HokieKev · Nov 7, 2017

I am a member of a small neighborhood pool. The finances are precarious at best. People can always go to the big Montgomery County public pools for a couple bucks. They are essentially putting the small neighborhood pools out of business. This $15 wage to lifeguards is going to be the final nail in the coffin for small neighborhood pools.

There are going to be a lot of unintended consequences to this bad policy.

TargetGrade · Nov 7, 2017

ADR said:
No I fully inderstood the point just as I understood the attitude it was made with and the ultimate purpose which was to be self important by essentially trash talking everyone who may be in a situation where they have such a job. I'm not even saying I think it's necessarily a wise choice to set it at $15 myself but I get tired of the chest thumping, smack talking, self righteous bullsh!t.

Not a damn person, myself included, is any better than someone working in fast food, sweeping parking lots, taking out trash, etc...

So what should a 40 dollar an hour account make just to make it even....... 50 dollars? :rolleyes:

No self righteous bullsh!t, will the military get a 10 an hour raise predicated on a 40 hour week? The money will come from somewhere, fast food is no longer cheap, 2 Whoppers/ 6 buck special will be 12 bucks, bank on it.

AssMan · Nov 7, 2017

Crazy. Around here, entry level Police and Fire is in the $30K range (not sure about MoCo specifically).

Look for unemployment to skyrocket in MoCo over the next few years.

OrbitalEllipses · Nov 7, 2017

snallygaster said:
Crazy. Around here, entry level Police and Fire is in the $30K range (not sure about MoCo specifically).

Look for unemployment to skyrocket in MoCo over the next few years.

Last I checked MoCo was in the $50K range for police.

Stoveman · Nov 7, 2017

These dumbasses have also just raised the cost of county building projects. Prevailing wage tied to Union pay rates which are set at "x$/hr" above Minimum Wage. The unions love it when the MW increases.

GolfR · Nov 7, 2017

business owners are going to look to automation to replace low skilled workers if they have to pay these rates. Mcdonnalds can buy a machine that flips burgers for the price of one years salary at this rate and the burgers will be cooked perfectly every time and there will be no drama or benefits required. I just hope that the elected officials will be held responsible for the reduction in unskilled labor jobs that will result from this. I will enjoy my perfectly cooked burgers and fries....

GolfR · Nov 7, 2017

Stoveman said:
These dumbasses have also just raised the cost of county building projects. Prevailing wage tied to Union pay rates which are set at "x$/hr" above Minimum Wage. The unions love it when the MW increases.

While some wages are tied to MW, the majority are not. You will see massive wage compression from this and the gap between educated workers and unskilled workers will decrease and result in a lessioning benefit for attending college and gaining a skill. THey are making it a bad choice to go to college and get an education because low end college educated jobs aren't going to pay much more than the minimum wage.

Stoveman · Nov 7, 2017

GolfR said:
While some wages are tied to MW, the majority are not. You will see massive wage compression from this and the gap between educated workers and unskilled workers will decrease and result in a lessioning benefit for attending college and gaining a skill. THey are making it a bad choice to go to college and get an education because low end college educated jobs aren't going to pay much more than the minimum wage.

I was specifically referring to union wage rates. Most are set at a certain $/hr rate above MW. When MW goes up so do these wages and as such so does the Prevailing Wage on county construction projects.

OrbitalEllipses · Nov 7, 2017

GolfR said:
I just hope that the elected officials will be held responsible for the reduction in unskilled labor jobs that will result from this.

Nah, we'll have more unemployed entitlement-seeking Democratic voters made out of it. More entitlement-seekers, more Democrats in office to take advantage of them.

TargetGrade · Nov 7, 2017

OrbitalEllipses said:
Last I checked MoCo was in the $50K range for police.

Not bad for one that's still in the academy.

We offer a starting salary of $50,462 for Police Officer Candidates.

Lateral Salary Range (based on prior police or military police experience):

$52,229 - 1 year
$54,057 – 2 years
$55,949 – 3 years
$57,908 – 4 years
$59,936 – 5 years
Throw in OTHER perks.... Id say they're well compensated. Does that paid military leave allow them to keep their military pay?

Benefits Include:

4-Day Work Week for Patrol Officers
Permanent Shift Schedules
Differential Pay for Bilingual Capabilities Upon Certification (averages $2000 – $4000 per year, based on fluency and hours worked)
Pay Differential for Evening and Night Shift (averages $1000-$2000 per year, based on shift hours worked)
Paid Holidays, Accrued Sick, Annual, and Compensatory Leave
All Uniforms Furnished to Include Cleaning and Alteration
All Leather Goods Furnished To Include Boots and Shoes
Eligibility to Participate in Take Home Police Car Program after 18 months of Employment
Liberal 25 year Retirement Plan / Deferred Compensation Plan
Benefits Include:

4-Day Work Week for Patrol Officers
Permanent Shift Schedules
Differential Pay for Bilingual Capabilities Upon Certification (averages $2000 – $4000 per year, based on fluency and hours worked)
Pay Differential for Evening and Night Shift (averages $1000-$2000 per year, based on shift hours worked)
Paid Holidays, Accrued Sick, Annual, and Compensatory Leave
All Uniforms Furnished to Include Cleaning and Alteration
All Leather Goods Furnished To Include Boots and Shoes
Eligibility to Participate in Take Home Police Car Program after 18 months of Employment
Liberal 25 year Retirement Plan / Deferred Compensation Plan
Paid Military Leave for Training Purposes (15 days per year)
Medical/Dental/Vision/Life Insurance/Prescription Drug Plan
Medical Catastrophe Benefits/Workman’s Compensation Insurance
Employee Assistance Programs
Professional Improvement Leave
Worker’s Compensation Insurance
College Tuition Assistance for Continuing Education
Promotional Opportunities
Extensive In-Service Training and Specialized Career Opportunities
Credit Union
Salary and Benefits subject to change

Medical/Dental/Vision/Life Insurance/Prescription Drug Plan
Medical Catastrophe Benefits/Workman’s Compensation Insurance
Employee Assistance Programs
Professional Improvement Leave
Worker’s Compensation Insurance
College Tuition Assistance for Continuing Education
Promotional Opportunities
Extensive In-Service Training and Specialized Career Opportunities
Credit Union
Salary and Benefits subject to change

OrbitalEllipses · Nov 8, 2017

TargetGrade said:
Throw in OTHER perks.... Id say they're well compensated.

Yeah, I'd say so. That's BASE salary. With the overtime hours these guys pull, they put some well-paid engineers to shame.

GUNSnROTORS · Nov 8, 2017

A military E-1 makes $8.60/hr (1491*12/2080).

A 74.38% raise would bring them up to $15/hr.

Of course, that's based on a 40-hour week and some rounding (8.601923077, 6.398076923, 0.74379611).

A work week for the typical E-1 in the field or in combat can easily double 40 hours. So accounting for hours, E-1s are paid more like $4-5/hr.

MoCo had better serve a good damn burger.

Norton · Nov 8, 2017

GUNSnROTORS said:
A military E-1 makes $8.60/hr (1491*12/2080).

A 74.38% raise would bring them up to $15/hr.

Of course, that's based on a 40-hour week and some rounding (8.601923077, 6.398076923, 0.74379611).

A work week for the typical E-1 in the field or in combat can easily double 40 hours. So accounting for hours, E-1s are paid more like $4-5/hr.

MoCo had better serve a good damn burger.

To be fair, that's base salary and doesn't include BAH or BAS or the equivalent imputed income, but I get your point.

My wife's "salary" is way lower than mine, but she brings home 150% of my salary because of her BAH and BAS.

GUNSnROTORS · Nov 8, 2017

Norton said:
To be fair, that's base salary and doesn't include BAH or BAS or the equivalent imputed income, but I get your point.

My wife's "salary" is way lower than mine, but she brings home 150% of my salary because of her BAH and BAS.

True. There's also cola, flight, combat, etc., which can be substantial for those who receive them.

Worst-case might find a single E-1 in the barracks (or worse), on a cot (or worse), with a meal card (or worse). A typical combat day (call it day 1), the E-1 might have only a poncho for a bed (in a trench), a couple of MRE's (maybe three), and 2 quarts of 100-degree water. On day 2, our E-1 is back in a trench with a poncho, now with no food (it's coming though), and no water (it's coming too, on the truck with the MREs).

The US military has a long history of feeding and housing service members. I consider BAH and BAS to be benefits, exceptional when present, but absent in some cases too. It would be difficult to valuate military benefits without considering times of deprivation. Didn't want to get into benefits since they vary wildly based on rank, marital status, location, theater ... the topic is a quagmire. Plus, I'm too lazy to research the benefits at Whammy Burger to do the comparison.

MoCo Minimum Wage... $15

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