Patriot Picket Civil Rights Suit FILED!

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Doesn't have to be audio or video, a simple list of the dates and time the requests came in and if they were acted on.

    If they are still doing this, then it gets deeper. You can damn well bet these fuckers are still doing it, just not to PP. And they ned to be called on it by the other groups, and held accountable until it becomes not a regular way to do business.
    Anyone up for standing in the same spot holding signs saying “Boyd Rutherford is a Tyrant. Q55.62”?
     

    KIBarrister

    Opinionated Libertarian
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 10, 2013
    3,923
    Kent Island/Centreville
    Civil Forfeiture of property and assets gained by criminal enterprise is a means of correcting two things.
    1) It removes the profits from crimes committed from the criminal who committed those crimes.
    2) When used correctly to finance the criminal investigations into other crimes against the people. The people who were, and those who would be victims, actually benefit in the reduction of crimes.

    Such asset forfeiture should never be taken and applied to the general fund of ANY government office other than crime fighting efforts. Doing so actually encourages the politicians to become an interested party in the forfeiture. And THAT is the problem we are seeing now.
    Which is different from the departments getting shiny new MRAP’s from such seizures how? I’m not entirely opposed to the notion on its own (though I do oppose the criminal laws most often used as a basis; something like welfare fraud I would welcome use upon conviction), but a conviction for a crime related to the asset directly should be a sine non qua of forfeiture. I’ve seen prosecutors, after talking to the arresting officer, offer to stet and eventually drop charges - after the forfeiture proceedings are concluded without objection.
     

    RoadDawg

    Nos nostraque Deo
    Dec 6, 2010
    94,189
    Which is different from the departments getting shiny new MRAP’s from such seizures how? I’m not entirely opposed to the notion on its own (though I do oppose the criminal laws most often used as a basis; something like welfare fraud I would welcome use upon conviction), but a conviction for a crime related to the asset directly should be a sine non qua of forfeiture. I’ve seen prosecutors, after talking to the arresting officer, offer to stet and eventually drop charges - after the forfeiture proceedings are concluded without objection.
    Because… the defendant basically gets rid of charges which could/would have placed them behind bars for a long time… by surrendering the gains from the crime they’ve committed.

    The municipality takes the ill gotten gains… and the guilty person walks free. I don’t like that agreement because the guilty person gets a stet on record rather than being found guilty.

    As for MRAPs… they are sometimes necessary to save lives. Look up the Joseph Palzenski (spl?) case from Baltimore County. The County did not have an armored vehicle. The City sent the one they had to the scene. I saw the bullet marks on the vehicle and the cracked bullet resistant windshield. That truck took several rounds which were intended for the Officers inside of and behind it.
     

    KIBarrister

    Opinionated Libertarian
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 10, 2013
    3,923
    Kent Island/Centreville
    Because… the defendant basically gets rid of charges which could/would have placed them behind bars for a long time… by surrendering the gains from the crime they’ve committed.

    The municipality takes the ill gotten gains… and the guilty person walks free. I don’t like that agreement because the guilty person gets a stet on record rather than being found guilty.

    As for MRAPs… they are sometimes necessary to save lives. Look up the Joseph Palzenski (spl?) case from Baltimore County. The County did not have an armored vehicle. The City sent the one they had to the scene. I saw the bullet marks on the vehicle and the cracked bullet resistant windshield. That truck took several rounds which were intended for the Officers inside of and behind it.
    It’s extortion.

    As for the MRAP’s, I get why charm city needs one, it’s a war zone. Local sheriff’s offices in rural Marylandistan not so much…
     

    RoadDawg

    Nos nostraque Deo
    Dec 6, 2010
    94,189
    It’s extortion.

    As for the MRAP’s, I get why charm city needs one, it’s a war zone. Local sheriff’s offices in rural Marylandistan not so much…
    Extortion?
    Of a career criminal?
    Cry me a river. They get to walk free with no record of guilt. Then they are free to go victimize more people. And still claim they were never found guilty.
     

    willtill

    The Dude Abides
    MDS Supporter
    May 15, 2007
    24,337
    Certainly this is what’s needed to keep Americans safe

    I watched that whole video. Man, that's some eff'ed up chit right there. NEVER tell cops anything.

    He probably would've been fine and sent on his way if he never told the cop he had cash or consented to a search. Thank gawd the IJ helped him get his money back.
     

    KingClown

    SOmething Witty
    Jul 29, 2020
    1,154
    Deep Blue MD
    You apparently want to argue and pontificate on your opinion of cops. Tossing around innuendo and ad hominem as if it is necessary to speak to others. It is not. And the hubris is obvious in your writing. Proud of the fact that you've been stopped SO many times by SO many "bad cops".

    Go ahead... What you're telling is more than you think you are telling.
    Negative, You are still doing exactly what I said. You are ignoring what the police did. You refuse to address it because then you would have to burst your bubble and aknowledge reality. Your trying to dance around it again. You are ignoring what they did that I have listed several times. If you actually addressed it you would prove everything everyone says right.
    As usual you are victim blaming. You want to accuss me to give police a pass. I see it. You see it though you wont admit it and everyone else here sees it.

    Next you will be saying Biden is a great president because thats the equivelent your ignoring all the laws those police broke just as some people are ignoring the shit show of a president we have.
    I will keep specifying until you address it or let everyone else laugh at your refusal to accept reality. So I will recap again.
    Address the cop that tried planting the gun
    The 2 that tried planting drugs.
    The one that claimed he follows me f or 2 miles even though I hadnt driven 500 feet.
    The one that tried to charge me for possession of an epi pen.
    The one that tried to hold me for a k-9.
    Until you address those individual youll be taken as serious as the dementia patient in the white house.
     

    KingClown

    SOmething Witty
    Jul 29, 2020
    1,154
    Deep Blue MD
    You apparently want to argue and pontificate on your opinion of cops. Tossing around innuendo and ad hominem as if it is necessary to speak to others. It is not. And the hubris is obvious in your writing. Proud of the fact that you've been stopped SO many times by SO many "bad cops".

    Go ahead... What you're telling is more than you think you are telling.
    Also please show me where in this forum I spoke bad of police in an umbrella sense. I am giving you specific situations and you are ok with that. You are ignoring them because it would shatter your reality.
    You are showing the world more than you think. I would venture to day the majority of people here would call it the same way I am.
    Spoiler Alert condemning a cop for breaking the law is not speaking ill of all cops.

    Side note. Were you a Baltimore city cop? I am betting you were.
     

    KIBarrister

    Opinionated Libertarian
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 10, 2013
    3,923
    Kent Island/Centreville
    Extortion?
    Of a career criminal?
    Cry me a river. They get to walk free with no record of guilt. Then they are free to go victimize more people. And still claim they were never found guilty.
    Some research on why it is extortion, why and how it is abused, and why it has zero impact on crime. Be warned, the PDF is a literal book. But, if you do read it, I’m curious to know if it changes your outlook.

     

    KingClown

    SOmething Witty
    Jul 29, 2020
    1,154
    Deep Blue MD
    Some research on why it is extortion, why and how it is abused, and why it has zero impact on crime. Be warned, the PDF is a literal book. But, if you do read it, I’m curious to know if it changes your outlook.

    Ill save you sometime. He will ignore anything that doesnt fit in his rose colored glasses and then blame the victim. I mean after all look at how she was dressed.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Agreed. Sadly, institutional greed trumps fair public policy, over and over again.

    It should also be avoided in seizure of peoples' homes by a locality in order to assist in building projects that will bring in increased tax revenue. (I think that was the underlying basis for tossing a Connecticut woman out of her house. I might be mistaken.)
    You have the Connecticut case correct and it was a land mark case for the use of Eminent Domain. Prior to this case, Eminent Domain was only used when the governmental entity needed land for a government project. In Kelo, the government wanted to take the property using Eminent Domain and then provide the property to a developer.


    I don't trust law enforcement very much. I have had two officers lie under oath against me, had one charge me with discharging a firearm within 150 yards of a dwelling even though he was not there to witness the discharge of anything, and another charge me with having a loaded firearm in my vehicle because I would not tell her who shot the mockingbird. Could not tell her who shot the mockingbird because I never saw who did it, or if it was even done. That is the Cliff's Note versions of my bad encounters with law enforcement. I have had way more good encounters with law enforcement than bad ones. However, a single bad encounter with law enforcement can overshadow 100 good encounters, especially if it results in prison time and a record.

    I avoid the city areas, I don't drive very much, and when I do drive I pretty much adhere to the rules of the road like coming to a full stop at stop signs and before making a right turn on red. So, the probability of me getting pulled over is pretty slim (knock on wood).

    Law enforcement has a financial incentive to crank up the number of charges/arrests because it means more OT for appearing in court.

    And to address RD's contention that we need laws to deal with evil doers, we don't need this many damn laws. The ghost gun law and all the other anti 2A laws in Maryland are to catch evil doers? I don't think so. There are so many laws on the books that we are ALL evil doers at some point in our lives. Reduce the number of criminal laws. Reduce prison sentences for non-violent crimes, and increase prison sentences for violent crimes. That is where I would start.

    Sadly, my kids might be adults before this case is finally wrapped up. My son is almost as tall as me now and my daughter is finishing up her freshman year in high school. I look a lot older nowadays too.
    MdShooters187.jpg
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Because… the defendant basically gets rid of charges which could/would have placed them behind bars for a long time… by surrendering the gains from the crime they’ve committed.

    The municipality takes the ill gotten gains… and the guilty person walks free. I don’t like that agreement because the guilty person gets a stet on record rather than being found guilty.

    As for MRAPs… they are sometimes necessary to save lives. Look up the Joseph Palzenski (spl?) case from Baltimore County. The County did not have an armored vehicle. The City sent the one they had to the scene. I saw the bullet marks on the vehicle and the cracked bullet resistant windshield. That truck took several rounds which were intended for the Officers inside of and behind it.
    Civil forfeitures should be given to the Red Cross or another charity. It eliminates the self interest of law enforcement and/or politicians to use said method of punishment except when absolutely necessary.

    The older this country becomes, the more we look like England of old.
     

    RoadDawg

    Nos nostraque Deo
    Dec 6, 2010
    94,189
    Ill save you sometime. He will ignore anything that doesnt fit in his rose colored glasses and then blame the victim. I mean after all look at how she was dressed.
    I’ve not ignored anything. Yet here you are telling someone else that I have. If you’re going to make sh!t up to accuse me. How do I or anyone else know that you’ve not fabricated these stories about others? You claim that these things happened to you. And for some reason known only to you, are demanding that I address them.

    No one can address them with anything other than opinion and conjecture. Therefore, any attempt to address them would do no more than create a long dialogue of contention and worthless waste of bandwidth. In the end… nothing can be gained by discussing your fantastic tales of woe. I did not ignore the tales. I simply won’t be drawn into addressing anecdotes which I do not have any evidence to support and none but one side of the story.

    Drive safe.
     

    KIBarrister

    Opinionated Libertarian
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 10, 2013
    3,923
    Kent Island/Centreville
    Ill save you sometime. He will ignore anything that doesnt fit in his rose colored glasses and then blame the victim. I mean after all look at how she was dressed.
    Hope springs eternal; if he actually reads it there is compelling data to support the reality that civil forfeiture (as separate and distinct from criminal forfeiture) is an unholy evil.
    You have the Connecticut case correct and it was a land mark case for the use of Eminent Domain. Prior to this case, Eminent Domain was only used when the governmental entity needed land for a government project. In Kelo, the government wanted to take the property using Eminent Domain and then provide the property to a developer.


    I don't trust law enforcement very much. I have had two officers lie under oath against me, had one charge me with discharging a firearm within 150 yards of a dwelling even though he was not there to witness the discharge of anything, and another charge me with having a loaded firearm in my vehicle because I would not tell her who shot the mockingbird. Could not tell her who shot the mockingbird because I never saw who did it, or if it was even done. That is the Cliff's Note versions of my bad encounters with law enforcement. I have had way more good encounters with law enforcement than bad ones. However, a single bad encounter with law enforcement can overshadow 100 good encounters, especially if it results in prison time and a record.

    I avoid the city areas, I don't drive very much, and when I do drive I pretty much adhere to the rules of the road like coming to a full stop at stop signs and before making a right turn on red. So, the probability of me getting pulled over is pretty slim (knock on wood).

    Law enforcement has a financial incentive to crank up the number of charges/arrests because it means more OT for appearing in court.

    And to address RD's contention that we need laws to deal with evil doers, we don't need this many damn laws. The ghost gun law and all the other anti 2A laws in Maryland are to catch evil doers? I don't think so. There are so many laws on the books that we are ALL evil doers at some point in our lives. Reduce the number of criminal laws. Reduce prison sentences for non-violent crimes, and increase prison sentences for violent crimes. That is where I would start.

    Sadly, my kids might be adults before this case is finally wrapped up. My son is almost as tall as me now and my daughter is finishing up her freshman year in high school. I look a lot older nowadays too. View attachment 365973
    Yep. I have dozens of close friends that are police and are honorable men (and a couple women). But I have seen what the bad apples can do and, more importantly get away with: fabricating the basis for a stop because “black man with Florida plates on known drug corridor” (never mind he admittedly committed no traffic violation, has two masters degrees and was traveling to see family), knowingly and intentionally perjuring themselves (seen this dozens of times, most recently in a case where we had discussed his testimony and watched the underlying video 20 minutes prior - no way it was a mistake), outright fabricating criminal allegations from whole cloth (literally 100% made it up) and used a swat team to silence indisputable first amendment peaceful speech. The list goes on and on - though it is worth noting that I have seen prosecutors behave even worse and just as frequently.
    Civil forfeitures should be given to the Red Cross or another charity. It eliminates the self interest of law enforcement and/or politicians to use said method of punishment except when absolutely necessary.

    The older this country becomes, the more we look like England of old.
    QFT
     

    RoadDawg

    Nos nostraque Deo
    Dec 6, 2010
    94,189
    Hope springs eternal; if he actually reads it there is compelling data to support the reality that civil forfeiture (as separate and distinct from criminal forfeiture) is an unholy evil.

    Yep. I have dozens of close friends that are police and are honorable men (and a couple women). But I have seen what the bad apples can do and, more importantly get away with: fabricating the basis for a stop because “black man with Florida plates on known drug corridor” (never mind he admittedly committed no traffic violation, has two masters degrees and was traveling to see family), knowingly and intentionally perjuring themselves (seen this dozens of times, most recently in a case where we had discussed his testimony and watched the underlying video 20 minutes prior - no way it was a mistake), outright fabricating criminal allegations from whole cloth (literally 100% made it up) and used a swat team to silence indisputable first amendment peaceful speech. The list goes on and on - though it is worth noting that I have seen prosecutors behave even worse and just as frequently.

    QFT
    Thus far… my comments have been restricted to the topic of the criminal side of forfeiture. The taking of real property or assets by any government by imminent domain, (civil side) is something which I find to be abhorrent. I also do not believe that cities should be able to annex surrounding lands. If the government wants the property… they should pay full boat and more for the owner’s trouble.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,946
    Messages
    7,259,815
    Members
    33,350
    Latest member
    Rotorboater

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom