Illinois counties declaring sanctuary status...

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  • Mike

    Propietario de casa, Toluca, México
    MDS Supporter
    The lines between sides in this civil war would be pretty hard to draw considering the liberal states are dividing themselves up.
    'got ur map for ya right here
    20161219_clinton.jpg
     

    AlanInSilverSpring

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 25, 2017
    1,645
    Unite under his rule. I have never seen so much anger between the parties and the races. Maobama actually split everyone and made enemies of people different then him. Change was really what he wanted....and he damn well accomplished it. To me, it is the Lite version of what happened in S. Africa and Zimbabwe. My kids always had friends of other races. After that Mad Magazine meme monster, these friends would pull race crap and some hatred towards my daughters- for no damn reason. They were besties a couple weeks prior.

    I am actually scared for my family.

    I'd say he set race relations back 30-40 years.
     

    jtaldow

    www.mises.org
    Jan 28, 2018
    26
    Montgomery County, MD
    This could turn ugly quickly, this could ignite a "hot" civil war. It is unlikely that the feds will get involved because DJT is probably laughing so hard at this turn of events, but consider this, what if Illinois decides to roll the NG into these counties all it takes is one shot....

    yeah but the NG would have to follow the order. Many of those guys are gun owners themselves, and would be opposed to instituting martial law in their own communities. It wouldn't surprise me if they straight up refused.

    This whole discussion highlights several interesting points:

    1. Nullification- not just jury nullification, wherein a jury doesn't have to find a defendant guilty if they find the law to be ********, but the general concept of refusing to enforce or follow a law that is unconstitutional (US or Maryland constitution). Tom Woods wrote a great book on this (though not necessarily specific to Maryland): https://www.amazon.com/Nullification-Resist-Federal-Tyranny-Century/dp/1596981490

    2. Civil war: I'm not really worried about this. It is not a foregone conclusion that just because one group of people wants to follow one set of laws and another group of people prefer a different set, even if they previously shared the same set of laws, now they must fight for the power to make laws for the other group. If the Soviet Union can split up into many different nations in a short period of time, with essentially no bloodshed (Ceausescu notwithstanding), then so can Maryland, or the United States.

    3. Laws made as locally as possible are the best possible solution. It's not a perfect solution, and certainly some people will end up having their rights trampled (such as is the case when a locality bans handguns, uber, or anything else). But the smaller that area is, geographically, the easier it is to move to a different area with more freedom. Moreover, competing power centers will encourage more freedom, as politicians won't want to see their tax base moving elsewhere, they'll be disincentivized to strip the rights of their tax base.

    4. Western Maryland: https://freewesternmd.org/about/
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    yeah but the NG would have to follow the order. Many of those guys are gun owners themselves, and would be opposed to instituting martial law in their own communities. It wouldn't surprise me if they straight up refused.

    This whole discussion highlights several interesting points:

    1. Nullification- not just jury nullification, wherein a jury doesn't have to find a defendant guilty if they find the law to be ********, but the general concept of refusing to enforce or follow a law that is unconstitutional (US or Maryland constitution). Tom Woods wrote a great book on this (though not necessarily specific to Maryland): https://www.amazon.com/Nullification-Resist-Federal-Tyranny-Century/dp/1596981490

    2. Civil war: I'm not really worried about this. It is not a foregone conclusion that just because one group of people wants to follow one set of laws and another group of people prefer a different set, even if they previously shared the same set of laws, now they must fight for the power to make laws for the other group. If the Soviet Union can split up into many different nations in a short period of time, with essentially no bloodshed (Ceausescu notwithstanding), then so can Maryland, or the United States.

    3. Laws made as locally as possible are the best possible solution. It's not a perfect solution, and certainly some people will end up having their rights trampled (such as is the case when a locality bans handguns, uber, or anything else). But the smaller that area is, geographically, the easier it is to move to a different area with more freedom. Moreover, competing power centers will encourage more freedom, as politicians won't want to see their tax base moving elsewhere, they'll be disincentivized to strip the rights of their tax base.

    4. Western Maryland: https://freewesternmd.org/about/

    It only takes 1 shot.
     

    jtaldow

    www.mises.org
    Jan 28, 2018
    26
    Montgomery County, MD
    I was following that movement for awhile but they seemed to die out once Hogan was elected.

    sad, but true. the fact that a Republican was elected governor shouldn't have been reason enough to abandon a conservative strategy, radical as it might be. I'd love for the movement to pick up some steam again.

    MoCo and PG County have so little in common with the Western counties, it's crazy to think that the same laws should cover them all.
     

    jtaldow

    www.mises.org
    Jan 28, 2018
    26
    Montgomery County, MD
    It only takes 1 shot.

    I don't think this is necessarily true. It MIGHT only take one shot. There might be a domino effect; such was more or less the case with the Austrian arch duke in WW1. But the Turks shot down a Russian jet in 2015 , and yet no war happened. There were plenty of shots in the Waco massacre in '93 , and no war followed. The lesser known conflict at the Maine/ New Brunswick border never lead to an actual war. War is not a foregone conclusion, or even a likely scenario. I think it's more likely that cooler heads will prevail, and an amicable divorce of sorts, such as the Soviet Union dissolution, will occur.
     

    lemmdus

    Active Member
    Feb 24, 2015
    380
    ...for gun owners. It looks like the left's tactics are being used against them and some Libs are screaming foul.

    While I don't really agree with the concept of sanctuary status to avoid complying with law one doesn't agree with, as the laws should be respected everywhere there is definitely some satisfaction in this. :D

    Maybe this could start a movement that shows the Libs they can't run over our rights like they constantly try to do. Of course...appropriating their tactics is not fair play.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-illinois-gun-sanctuary-counties-20180506-story.html

    When at war, which we are, all be it not a shooting one, the only fair play is the one that wins.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    I don't think this is necessarily true. It MIGHT only take one shot. There might be a domino effect; such was more or less the case with the Austrian arch duke in WW1. But the Turks shot down a Russian jet in 2015 , and yet no war happened. There were plenty of shots in the Waco massacre in '93 , and no war followed. The lesser known conflict at the Maine/ New Brunswick border never lead to an actual war. War is not a foregone conclusion, or even a likely scenario. I think it's more likely that cooler heads will prevail, and an amicable divorce of sorts, such as the Soviet Union dissolution, will occur.

    You are talking about wars between nations. If you have two sides armed and standing face to face which is most likely will happen in these counties when the NG comes in, with all the adrenaline, nervousness, etc if one gun shot is hear or is though to be heard things will go sideways fast.
     

    lemmdus

    Active Member
    Feb 24, 2015
    380
    sad, but true. the fact that a Republican was elected governor shouldn't have been reason enough to abandon a conservative strategy, radical as it might be. I'd love for the movement to pick up some steam again.

    MoCo and PG County have so little in common with the Western counties, it's crazy to think that the same laws should cover them all.

    Carroll County has nothing in common with Montg County yet we have the same Congressman. Hopefully that will now change. I am for Western MD forming its own state or joining one it more fits with such as WVA.
     

    lemmdus

    Active Member
    Feb 24, 2015
    380
    You are talking about wars between nations. If you have two sides armed and standing face to face which is most likely will happen in these counties when the NG comes in, with all the adrenaline, nervousness, etc if one gun shot is hear or is though to be heard things will go sideways fast.

    History repeating itself. This happened in Lexington and Concord with the British and the Colonists. Someone got nervous, probably a British Loyalist, and fired and it was off to the races. Happened before it can happen again. You have a bunch of armed citizens and a nervous young NG or cop, shot goes off, and all hell breaks lose.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    History repeating itself. This happened in Lexington and Concord with the British and the Colonists. Someone got nervous, probably a British Loyalist, and fired and it was off to the races. Happened before it can happen again. You have a bunch of armed citizens and a nervous young NG or cop, shot goes off, and all hell breaks lose.

    If that were to happen I do not know what the federal govt can do legally besides the typical alphabet soup agencies. I do not think DoD can do anything because the NG were being used for state level enforcement.
     

    sports89man7

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 21, 2018
    86
    It's scary how divided we're getting. We're basically watching the possible beginning of a civil war. Certainly no armed conflict yet, but having all 3 branches of government fighting against each other and infighting in each.

    And to think just 9 years ago a "man" was elected as president promising to unite us all.

    one part of me says that we are on the verge of yet another civil war, but yet another part of me says good luck trying to find people to fight it. people are too busy glued to their iPhones and ipads to really care about what is really going on. i do think that dissolution of the union is coming, but i think its going to be a peaceful secession. unless the government tries to repeal the 2A then that's when ill fight. i just don't think that average American's have any balls anymore. but i tell people its gunna get nasty here in the next 5 months.
     

    MigraineMan

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 9, 2011
    19,109
    Frederick County
    Follow-up from a year ago.

    Second Amendment 'sanctuary county' movement expands as organizers take aim at new gun laws

    Effingham County State’s Attorney Bryan Kibler last month told a raucous crowd the origin story behind the “Second Amendment sanctuary county” movement, which began in Effingham and now includes 64 of the state’s 102 counties, counties in three other states, and nine more states in which counties are eyeing similar nonbinding measures. And as state legislators, emboldened by Gov. J.B. Pritzker, look at more gun-control measures, counties are looking at more ways to resist them.
     

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