Help with sched A and assignment of property

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  • ARenthusiast

    Active Member
    Mar 17, 2012
    174
    So im getting ready to finalize my paperwork before I send it off to the ATF. Just trying to get a few things strait with my sched A and assignment of property before I get it all notarized and sent off

    From what I have gathered, the trust will not be legitimate (not a legal trust in the eyes of the ATF) until I have something added to my sched A and assignment of property. This SBR will be my first NFA item ever, so this is how I have it written on my sched A and assignment of property

    1. Spikes Tactical AR15 lower receiver. Model: SL 15 Serial number: xxxxxxxx *(Form 1 to SBR receiver has been submitted and is awaiting approval).

    Does this seem right?

    If so, should it be writen this way on both the sched A and the assign of property?

    Then what do you do when you get your stamp? Write up a new sched A and assign of property?
     

    ARenthusiast

    Active Member
    Mar 17, 2012
    174
    So, no sched A needed at all? That means you type up a new assignment of property every time with the new item added to the list? or do you have separate assignment of property sheet for each item, and only send in the sheet with the item that is awaiting approval?
     

    Lex Armarum

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 19, 2009
    3,450
    So im getting ready to finalize my paperwork before I send it off to the ATF. Just trying to get a few things strait with my sched A and assignment of property before I get it all notarized and sent off

    From what I have gathered, the trust will not be legitimate (not a legal trust in the eyes of the ATF) until I have something added to my sched A and assignment of property. This SBR will be my first NFA item ever, so this is how I have it written on my sched A and assignment of property

    1. Spikes Tactical AR15 lower receiver. Model: SL 15 Serial number: xxxxxxxx *(Form 1 to SBR receiver has been submitted and is awaiting approval).

    Does this seem right?

    If so, should it be writen this way on both the sched A and the assign of property?

    Then what do you do when you get your stamp? Write up a new sched A and assign of property?

    Read this: http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2011/06/schedule-a-or-assignment-sheet.html

    I use an assignment sheet instead of a schedule A. I have four approved stamps so far using this technique.

    So, no sched A needed at all? That means you type up a new assignment of property every time with the new item added to the list? or do you have separate assignment of property sheet for each item, and only send in the sheet with the item that is awaiting approval?

    Use your schedule A and fund the trust with $1 or whatever. If I prepared the trust for you, then the cover letter I provided contains instructions on how to fund the trust. If I didn't prepare your trust, then...

    Generally, you should NOT list the item you are registering on the trust as it implies ownership and ownership of a NFA item pre-registration is illegal. However, in this instance, the trust can "own" the lower but you should be able to show that the lower (presumably bought in Maryland) was legally transferred into trust ownership through the MSP.
     

    StillServing

    I know NOTHING !
    Feb 1, 2011
    949
    Calvert County
    Oh Crap! Never thought about the transfer deal. My can on a form 4 was bought by the Trust. My SBR lower that was owned by an individual (bought in MD) needs to be transferred to the Trust now (before the Form 1 is processed huh?!). What's that a simple form done up at MSP? What's the cost for that?
     

    ARenthusiast

    Active Member
    Mar 17, 2012
    174
    So to transfer a non NFA receiver into the trust there is seperate paperwork that needs to be done through MSP? or are you saying I just need to be able to prove that the lower was purchased legally by myself as an individual, and then transferred properly into the trust?
     

    StillServing

    I know NOTHING !
    Feb 1, 2011
    949
    Calvert County
    ............ However, in this instance, the trust can "own" the lower but you should be able to show that the lower (presumably bought in Maryland) was legally transferred into trust ownership through the MSP.

    OK, Now I'm confused....... I just called the MSP, Regulated Firearms Registration Section to ask them how I go about transferring the lower into my Trust. The Trooper stated that MD does not register regulated firearms in the names of Trusts. That the lower (in this case) would stay in my name but just be managed by the Trust.
    Are we getting into semantics now in that MD would "register" the lower in MY name, but I still need to transfer the "ownership" to the Trust?? Just trying to keep everything above board. He made it sound like there was nothing I had to do.
     

    ARenthusiast

    Active Member
    Mar 17, 2012
    174
    I'm confused as well. How can Maryland have the lower registered to you as an individual and at the same time the SBR lower belongs to the trust?
     

    StillServing

    I know NOTHING !
    Feb 1, 2011
    949
    Calvert County
    That's what I'm trying to figure out. I already sent in the Form 1 to SBR the lower under the Trust without even thinking about having to transfer the lower to the Trust first. Now MSP is saying they won't transfer the lower? Or again are we playing word game with the "register" word? I know you can straight up buy the lower as a Trust, why wouldn't I be able to transfer it?
     

    Lex Armarum

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 19, 2009
    3,450
    Oh Crap! Never thought about the transfer deal. My can on a form 4 was bought by the Trust. My SBR lower that was owned by an individual (bought in MD) needs to be transferred to the Trust now (before the Form 1 is processed huh?!). What's that a simple form done up at MSP? What's the cost for that?

    So to transfer a non NFA receiver into the trust there is seperate paperwork that needs to be done through MSP? or are you saying I just need to be able to prove that the lower was purchased legally by myself as an individual, and then transferred properly into the trust?

    OK, Now I'm confused....... I just called the MSP, Regulated Firearms Registration Section to ask them how I go about transferring the lower into my Trust. The Trooper stated that MD does not register regulated firearms in the names of Trusts. That the lower (in this case) would stay in my name but just be managed by the Trust.
    Are we getting into semantics now in that MD would "register" the lower in MY name, but I still need to transfer the "ownership" to the Trust?? Just trying to keep everything above board. He made it sound like there was nothing I had to do.

    I'm confused as well. How can Maryland have the lower registered to you as an individual and at the same time the SBR lower belongs to the trust?

    That's what I'm trying to figure out. I already sent in the Form 1 to SBR the lower under the Trust without even thinking about having to transfer the lower to the Trust first. Now MSP is saying they won't transfer the lower? Or again are we playing word game with the "register" word? I know you can straight up buy the lower as a Trust, why wouldn't I be able to transfer it?

    started a new thread on the transfer issue. Sorry about the thread jack!! Back to the OP.....

    It's cool man. Looks like we are looking for te same answers


    To answer the thread jack first, if the MSP is saying that they do not recognize a trust as an individual and therefore will not transfer a regulated firearm to a trust (since a trust is technically a separate entity), then it seems that no paperwork is needed. However, that raises the question of how they handle transfers to businesses who purchase firearms. I am going to refrain from venturing any further into this conversation until I have an opportunity to speak with the MSP Firearms Division.
     

    ARenthusiast

    Active Member
    Mar 17, 2012
    174
    Ok thanks for your help Rusty.

    Has anyone ever heard of the ATF granting an NFA stamp to a trust and then later finding the trust to be invalid? This seems to be the main concern when it comes to NFA trusts. I haven't actually read about a particular Case of this happening tho, and if it did actually happen, wouldn't the ATF be willing to work with you? Rather than imedietly charging you with possession of an illegal NFA item?
     

    Lex Armarum

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 19, 2009
    3,450
    Ok thanks for your help Rusty.

    Has anyone ever heard of the ATF granting an NFA stamp to a trust and then later finding the trust to be invalid? This seems to be the main concern when it comes to NFA trusts. I haven't actually read about a particular Case of this happening tho, and if it did actually happen, wouldn't the ATF be willing to work with you? Rather than imedietly charging you with possession of an illegal NFA item?

    To my knowledge, not yet to date but you must keep in mind that the "trust explosion" is a relatively new thing (in terms of numbers) and the ATF is still trying to figure out how to screw us **** ahem**** handle the situation. More to the point, the ATF will likely never "find" a trust invalid since that is not their area of expertise. Rather, they would charge you and/or the trust directly for a crime then the ADA would likely petition the court under the right set of facts and circumstances to have the trust declared invalid and attach personal criminal liability to you and/or your trustees as the situation warrants.

    Moreover, trust validity is not simply important within the context of the ATF. A trust is a LEGAL DOCUMENT which is controlled, interpreted, and upheld by LAW. It is an estate planning tool. Everything you do with regard to your trust has LEGAL IMPLICATIONS that could affect you down the road. Please do not take lightly the responsibilities that you take upon yourself by forming a trust. The responsibilities are small in number but very substantive and important over the long run. This is not a trivial fact.
     

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