New Maryland Wear and Carry Lawsuit

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  • danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    One angle I haven't heard attacked yet is related to the fact that courts have ruled it isn't an all out carry ban because open carry of long guns is legal.

    But MD law makes carrying a loaded rifle in motorized vehicles illegal (DNR regulation to prevent poaching?). Therefore, by not approving concealed carry permits one should be able to argue that the state has a defacto ban on carrying of firearms because you can't carry or transport loaded firearms in your car without a "may issue" license.

    There is in fact an outright ban in Baltimore City. Open carry of rifles is illegal. Since this is a suit against the state, likely one would have to challenge BC separately.

    For practical purposes, this argument is barely a fig leaf. After all, whats the rationale for open carry of rifles for self defense and not (holstered) pistols? Pistols are the "quintisessial self defense weapon" per Heller majority.
     

    ComeGet

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 1, 2015
    5,911
    Until Ginsberg and/or Kennedy is gone SCOTUS will never hear this. It's a given that the 4th circuit will shoot this down like they did with the MD AWB which other courts are now using to infringe on their citizens. (weapons of war, not covered under the 2A) This could set a precedent that could make it easier for other states to remove SHALL ISSUE from their laws. Besides, hasn't this already been tried and failed?


    Kind of an aside, but that is hilarious. If the Left's argument about the 2A, that it's saying citizens should be able to keep arms because they were all in the militia (an interpretation that I do not accept), then it was directly addressing the "weapons of war" of its time.

    Back on topic - the issues in your last two sentences are addressed in posts 9 and 24.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,376
    Westminster USA
    The 2A says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, not the right of the militia shall not be infringed


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    EL1227

    R.I.P.
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 14, 2010
    20,274
    Hogan most upset by this lawsuit.

    Frosh certainly should be ... AmmoLand.com, 10/15/13 -
    Maryland’s Woollard Supreme Court Petition Denied

    Federal Civil Rights legislation is a long and tedious process. We must continue to push forward in the General Assembly while we wait to see how the remaining court cases play out. MSI provides a number of opportunities to get involved through the events committee (events@marylandshallissue.org) to meet and engage people.

    2014 was a pivotal year for Maryland 2nd Amendment Rights. When <then> Senator Frosh was told to beware ignoring the people before him, he muttered “I'll take my chances,”
     

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,439
    The 2A says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, not the right of the militia shall not be infringed


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    US v Miller 1939

    Doesn't that ruling have somewhere specifically stating firearms of common military use are protected by the 2A ? I believe it was reason applied as to why a sawed off shotgun was not protected.
     

    GTOGUNNER

    IANAL, PATRIOT PICKET!!
    Patriot Picket
    Dec 16, 2010
    5,492
    Carroll County!
    US v Miller 1939

    Doesn't that ruling have somewhere specifically stating firearms of common military use are protected by the 2A ? I believe it was reason applied as to why a sawed off shotgun was not protected.
    Yes. But sawed (short barreled) shotguns were in common military use.

    The Miller case is extremely flawed.
    As party to the case, no one from the Miller side participated.

    Read about it here.
    http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/miller.htm
     
    Kind of an aside, but that is hilarious. If the Left's argument about the 2A, that it's saying citizens should be able to keep arms because they were all in the militia (an interpretation that I do not accept), then it was directly addressing the "weapons of war" of its time.

    Back on topic - the issues in your last two sentences are addressed in posts 9 and 24.

    I agree, there ruling was laughable, however SCOTUS refused to hear the challenge so the precedent was set. Now you have other courts as well as towns and cities using that ruling to defend their legislation to ban modern sporting guns (long and pistol) giving their citizens 60 days to comply or be punished. I know this was not our intention when the challenge was filed, but it opened a real can of worms that isn't likely to be closed until we have a pro 2A majority in the court. That may not happen for quite some time
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,012
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    I agree, there ruling was laughable, however SCOTUS refused to hear the challenge so the precedent was set. Now you have other courts as well as towns and cities using that ruling to defend their legislation to ban modern sporting guns (long and pistol) giving their citizens 60 days to comply or be punished. I know this was not our intention when the challenge was filed, but it opened a real can of worms that isn't likely to be closed until we have a pro 2A majority in the court. That may not happen for quite some time

    Or it may happen this Fall. Who knows what the future will bring? :shrug:

    And no, I don't have any inside info.
     

    GTOGUNNER

    IANAL, PATRIOT PICKET!!
    Patriot Picket
    Dec 16, 2010
    5,492
    Carroll County!
    Or it may happen this Fall. Who knows what the future will bring? :shrug:

    And no, I don't have any inside info.
    I agree. If Kennedy retires and RBG Eats dirt. I'd be happy with that. Those 2 spots can stay vacated for a long time.

    Sent from the 3rd Rock
     

    Abacab

    Member
    Sep 10, 2009
    2,644
    MD
    I don't see any new line of attack that we haven't seen before. Though I think it was said earlier this is just a vehicle to force the SC to take up the case - which I doubt they will, unfortunately.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,870
    WV
    What makes us think that SCOTUS will grant Cert this time since they have shied away so many times in the recent past.

    There will be a legitimate split on the table, one that the state will not be able to refute.
    We had 2 justices dissent in Peruta and signaled they would support striking down may-issue. Now it's just a matter of 2 (although 3 would be better) more justices who see that you cannot have a meaningless 2A (WRT public carry) in one place and a robust one in another.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    What makes us think that SCOTUS will grant Cert this time since they have shied away so many times in the recent past.

    Now there is a square conflict in the circuits between Wrenn (DC Circuit) and Woollard (4th Cir.) on a recurring issue of constitutional law. Classic case for SCT review. So if the Court refuses to hear this time, then you have one rule for the 2d Amendment in DC and a different rule for the 2A in the other states have have ruled on the question. Constitutions are not supposed to work that way. That is why the Court typically hears these sorts of conflict cases. At least, it usually works that way. We shall see.
     

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