Maryland Concealed carry for physicians

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  • dbledoc

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 8, 2013
    1,525
    Howard County
    Hi,
    I was wondering if anyone had advice on what has worked for G&S for a physician application for concealed carry. There is an allowance for doctors to apply, but when I e-mailed MSP they still wanted a G&S.

    Any thoughts will be helpful?
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Do you have a script pad?

    If no...you will likely get denied unless you carry large sums of cash for the practice and make deposits.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    Hi,
    I was wondering if anyone had advice on what has worked for G&S for a physician application for concealed carry. There is an allowance for doctors to apply, but when I e-mailed MSP they still wanted a G&S.

    Any thoughts will be helpful?

    Your G&S is fact dependent, even for doctors. Do you carry narcotics or other controlled substances in your black bag?
     

    gmkoh

    Active Member
    Feb 26, 2013
    327
    Annapolis
    Hi,
    I was wondering if anyone had advice on what has worked for G&S for a physician application for concealed carry. There is an allowance for doctors to apply, but when I e-mailed MSP they still wanted a G&S.

    Any thoughts will be helpful?

    I have wondered about that myself. Legal possession of drugs is not a listed g and s reason on the instructions, but if disapproved and taken to the board, it might fly. Few Docs carry such drugs on their person regularly, but I would opine that if they (drugs) are in the doc's office, the doc is always at risk for the evildoer drug addict to waylay him somewhere away from the office and force him with threats of severe physical violence to go the the office and open the drug safe.
    The cash deposit thing is valid and i know some who carry having used that as G&S, same as any business owner. But as I read the rules, you can only carry when actually in the process of making a deposit. (so how does the evil doer know when he has a deposit?).
     

    lurker

    Member
    Mar 18, 2013
    9
    "So I don't get murdered by a junkie" sounds like a pretty good and substantial reason to me, but then again I'm just a regular person with logic and reasoning, and that disqualifies me from being a government employee.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,141
    Outside the Gates
    I know a pharmacist with a permit ... having the keys to the pharmacy & safes was all they put on the ap and it flew ... don't know if there is any restriction on it though
     

    MDcompetition

    Anti-poacher
    MDS Supporter
    May 8, 2013
    93
    Baltimore, MD.
    I have wondered about that myself. Legal possession of drugs is not a listed g and s reason on the instructions, but if disapproved and taken to the board, it might fly. Few Docs carry such drugs on their person regularly, but I would opine that if they (drugs) are in the doc's office, the doc is always at risk for the evildoer drug addict to waylay him somewhere away from the office and force him with threats of severe physical violence to go the the office and open the drug safe.
    The cash deposit thing is valid and i know some who carry having used that as G&S, same as any business owner. But as I read the rules, you can only carry when actually in the process of making a deposit. (so how does the evil doer know when he has a deposit?).

    That raises a very interesting argument to raise once you obtain the CCW. Once the perpetrator(s) gains knowledge of your possessing the object of their desire, they will most likely strike when you are most vulnerable. You would have little choice but to carry 24/7, if you want to stay unharmed. How many stories have we heard about robbers kidnapping people and forcing them back to the place of business. A bank, a pharmacy, even a doctor's office. Good luck, you deserve it.
     

    gmkoh

    Active Member
    Feb 26, 2013
    327
    Annapolis
    There is a current news report about a woman who was kidnapped, forced to drive to something like 5 or 7 ATMs to withdraw money, then was stabbed to death. That she didn't actually have money on her person did not save her. Sounds like basis for G&S to me.
     

    gmkoh

    Active Member
    Feb 26, 2013
    327
    Annapolis
    You can carry (even open if you wanted) inside your office without a permit. Your office is just like your home for all practical purposes (providing there aren't any other restrictions such as your employer forbids it or some thing along those lines).

    Just to be clear, it's not INSIDE the office that is the issue- it is gaining access to what is in the office by the threat of violence to someone who can provide access but is out of the office.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,751
    Bel Air
    There are several physicians on the forum with a permit. You are correct that you still need G&S. IMO, every physician is a walking narcotic dispensary. You may not be necessarily transporting narcotics, but do you have an Rx pad? What if some enterprising young junkie were to put a gun to your head, open up the yellow pages to the pharmacy section, and tell you to start calling in Vicodin to every pharmacy in a 10 mile radius. That would be a lucrative day for him, would it not? You mentioned that not many physicians transport narcotics. I argue that having a few Percocet in your black bag is a good idea for emergencies. It may be a good practice for you to have some. It can be the basis for G&S.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    A dentist friend has a CCW based on his dental practice, script pad, etc.
     

    Lostinbmore

    Junior grade mop slopper
    Dec 19, 2012
    250
    Baltimore
    There are several physicians on the forum with a permit. You are correct that you still need G&S. IMO, every physician is a walking narcotic dispensary. You may not be necessarily transporting narcotics, but do you have an Rx pad? What if some enterprising young junkie were to put a gun to your head, open up the yellow pages to the pharmacy section, and tell you to start calling in Vicodin to every pharmacy in a 10 mile radius. That would be a lucrative day for him, would it not? You mentioned that not many physicians transport narcotics. I argue that having a few Percocet in your black bag is a good idea for emergencies. It may be a good practice for you to have some. It can be the basis for G&S.

    So is every pa-c, crnp, crna, mid-wife, and mph is eligible with this set of circumstances. Not to be argumentative, just because a script pad is accessible and it creates an avenue for Rx meds to be derived doesn't create g&s. that would be similar every gun owner needing ccw because the can take me hostage to gain access to my arsenal.

    I have md/do friends who have ccw each of them will admit they have it by manipulation of ccw rules. Good for them (the law bunk IMO) and good for you for the same reason.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,751
    Bel Air
    So is every pa-c, crnp, crna, mid-wife, and mph is eligible with this set of circumstances. Not to be argumentative, just because a script pad is accessible and it creates an avenue for Rx meds to be derived doesn't create g&s. that would be similar every gun owner needing ccw because the can take me hostage to gain access to my arsenal.

    I have md/do friends who have ccw each of them will admit they have it by manipulation of ccw rules. Good for them (the law bunk IMO) and good for you for the same reason.


    You'd have to run the above scenarios by MSP. I only know what worked for me. I don't make the rules, and I don't like the rules.
     

    Straightshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2010
    5,015
    Baltimore County
    So is every pa-c, crnp, crna, mid-wife, and mph is eligible with this set of circumstances. Not to be argumentative, just because a script pad is accessible and it creates an avenue for Rx meds to be derived doesn't create g&s. that would be similar every gun owner needing ccw because the can take me hostage to gain access to my arsenal.

    I have md/do friends who have ccw each of them will admit they have it by manipulation of ccw rules. Good for them (the law bunk IMO) and good for you for the same reason.

    MSP says it is G&S. That's what matters at this time.

    And once again, here we go with the "I have friends" line of crap. There's not much room for "manipulation" of CCW rules to gain a permit. Try applying for a permit and you'll find this out for yourself.
     

    Lostinbmore

    Junior grade mop slopper
    Dec 19, 2012
    250
    Baltimore
    MSP says it is G&S. That's what matters at this time.

    And once again, here we go with the "I have friends" line of crap. There's not much room for "manipulation" of CCW rules to gain a permit. Try applying for a permit and you'll find this out for yourself.

    I apologize, should I have dropped names and addresses to make the story more colorful for you? The crap law that allows some one right based on accessibilities for an md should also allow for any healthcare provider with the ability to write a script. More ccw's issued the better right?

    That same scenario of accessibility and the dangers of that accessibility is the same for gun owners, with safes and lockers full of weapons.

    Yeah there is room for manipulation, it's a state program it doesn't use the most forethough.
     

    Straightshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2010
    5,015
    Baltimore County
    It does allow others with the same access to get a permit. Example: my son in law is a pharmacy tech at a pharmacy. He makes deliveries of drugs to patients and nursing homes. He's not a Doctor or a Phatmacist yet he has a CCW that allows carry while going to and from work, while making deliveries and while carrying narcotic drugs.
    If you wish for everyone who passes the G&S muster under existing rules to hold off getting a permit until the masses are treated fairly, then you're screaming to the wrong audience. Most here want just the opposite, permits for as many as possible.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,751
    Bel Air
    I apologize, should I have dropped names and addresses to make the story more colorful for you? The crap law that allows some one right based on accessibilities for an md should also allow for any healthcare provider with the ability to write a script. More ccw's issued the better right?

    That same scenario of accessibility and the dangers of that accessibility is the same for gun owners, with safes and lockers full of weapons.

    Yeah there is room for manipulation, it's a state program it doesn't use the most forethough.

    You are arguing with people (it seems to me) based on the premise that we think these laws are fair. Nobody thinks so. IMO, anything that gets someone their permit is a win. We all acknowledge that the laws don't always make sense, and are Unconstitutional at their core. Until everyone can get one, we will keep fighting.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,141
    Outside the Gates
    So is every pa-c, crnp, crna, mid-wife, and mph is eligible with this set of circumstances. Not to be argumentative, just because a script pad is accessible and it creates an avenue for Rx meds to be derived doesn't create g&s. that would be similar every gun owner needing ccw because the can take me hostage to gain access to my arsenal.

    I have md/do friends who have ccw each of them will admit they have it by manipulation of ccw rules. Good for them (the law bunk IMO) and good for you for the same reason.

    Welcome to the arbitraryness of G&S ... this is what the Woollard lawsuit is all about
     

    dbledoc

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 8, 2013
    1,525
    Howard County
    Thanks for all of the input. I do carry a script pad, but that does not appear to be enough for G&S.

    When I sent an e-mail to the MSP this is one of the responses I got from them:

    "You would need to show and prove that you carry around like say large quantities of narcotics that might be dangerous and someone addicted would want to take from you. etc. or documented by police report that you have an active threat on your life from say a disgruntled patient etc. Something that says you need this permit because something actually happened to you in the past or there is a potential for something to happen to you due to what I carry with me. Do you have active threats on you and can back that up with a police report? do you make large deposits of cash to banks from your practice and can prove it with deposit slips? Do you carry quantities of CDS like Oxycontin or hydromorphone, Dilaudid Morphine, hydrocodone etc. that would make you a target? You need to articulate why you need one other then just because I'm a physician"

    I work for a hospital so I don't do the deposits. There are virtually no docs these days that carry narcotics around. I explained to them, that I do trauma call at night in bad neighborhoods, and that I have been on TV and the radio. There response came back the same. I need to have something happen to me before they will issue. i.e. get killed or I am SOL.
     

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