SBR Q

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  • ews25

    Member
    Apr 21, 2013
    68
    People's Republic of PG
    I want to pick up a short barreled AR before 10/1. Probably buy one off of gunbroker. Anyone have suggestions on what I need to do as far as the NFA paperwork? I understand you need details like a serial number for the NFA paperwork, so it can't be initiated ahead of time. But I doubt my FFL wants to sit on an SBR for the half a year it takes ATF to do their thing. I'm in PG, so obviously the local CLEO won't be of any assistance... Thoughts?
     

    Andras

    Active Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    583
    Charles Co.
    Buy a regular AR now, any kind, before 10/1 to act as the host.

    Figure out what barrel length and caliber you want for the SBR upper.
    Submit the SBR papers using the new AR's s/n and the details of the upper you want on it. Do not take possession of the upper until the NFA papers come back.

    Once you have the papers on hand, buy/build the SBR upper and assemble, until then you can still shoot your AR.

    Don't forget that you have to etch the lower or barrel with your info.
     

    jsnider22

    Active Member
    Feb 3, 2012
    165
    Walkersville, MD
    First of all you need to find a dealer that will accept a transfer on 1. If your in PG county I'd suggest calling A1 (IP on here) and see if they will do the transfer. They would then be able to help you out with the process.
     

    A1Uni

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2012
    4,842
    Don't worry about PGPD, have MSP do the CLEO sign off on it.

    All SOTs have to sit on NFA items for 6 to 8 months, it is the law, as that is how long it takes to get the tax stamp from ATF.

    And yes, we are happy to do NFA transfers.
     

    NeverSurrender

    Audentis Fortuna Iuvat
    Apr 3, 2013
    286
    Carroll County, MD
    Buy a regular AR now, any kind, before 10/1 to act as the host.

    Figure out what barrel length and caliber you want for the SBR upper.
    Submit the SBR papers using the new AR's s/n and the details of the upper you want on it. Do not take possession of the upper until the NFA papers come back.

    Once you have the papers on hand, buy/build the SBR upper and assemble, until then you can still shoot your AR.

    Don't forget that you have to etch the lower or barrel with your info.

    :thumbsup: This. Buy a lower receiver now and submit your Form 1, then finish the rifle when your paperwork comes through.
     

    ews25

    Member
    Apr 21, 2013
    68
    People's Republic of PG
    Thanks to all - followup

    Great, thanks for the input. I already have one DDM4, so, I'm good with a lower, though I think I want another, so I guess I'll have to get that lined up. So get a registered lower, identify the desired upper config, apply for the fed stamp, and purchase/possess the upper after the NFA papers come through?
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,376
    Westminster USA
    Great, thanks for the input. I already have one DDM4, so, I'm good with a lower, though I think I want another, so I guess I'll have to get that lined up. So get a registered lower, identify the desired upper config, apply for the fed stamp, and purchase/possess the upper after the NFA papers come through?

    You can buy the upper now. Just don't have them in the same location until your stamp comes back. Constructive possession is a chargeable crime.
     

    matt

    No one special
    Apr 9, 2011
    1,576
    You can buy the upper now. Just don't have them in the same location until your stamp comes back. Constructive possession is a chargeable crime.

    Can you cite a reference for this- I believe I've read otherwise and am curious... (This is not trying to call you out- or to be taken as an insult)

    This however is- OP: is it REALLY that hard to type out "Question" instead of "Q"? Nice little pickle we have here.....
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,376
    Westminster USA
    No reference, but Google should provide plenty of information on it. Not a good idea if you have other options available to you.
     

    vinjet700

    No one of significance
    Mar 1, 2013
    2,954
    State of absolute disgust
    Can you cite a reference for this- I believe I've read otherwise and am curious... (This is not trying to call you out- or to be taken as an insult)

    This however is- OP: is it REALLY that hard to type out "Question" instead of "Q"? Nice little pickle we have here.....

    WIKIPEDIA -- Just FYI :D

    "Constructive possession is a legal fiction to describe a situation where an individual has actual control over chattels or real property without actually having physical control of the same assets. At law, a person with constructive possession stands in the same legal position as a person with actual possession.

    For example, if one's car is sitting in one's driveway, one has physical possession of the car. However, any person with the key has constructive possession, as they may take physical possession at any time without further consent from one."
     

    NeverSurrender

    Audentis Fortuna Iuvat
    Apr 3, 2013
    286
    Carroll County, MD
    Constructive possession can definitely get you in jail. Do not take the chance:

    175 F.3d 870, *; 1999 U.S. App. LEXIS 8413, **;
    12 Fla. L. Weekly Fed. C 777

    UNITED STATES of America, Plaintiff-Appellee, v. Jason Christopher KENT, Defendant-Appellant.
    No. 97-8425.
    UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE ELEVENTH CIRCUIT
    175 F.3d 870; 1999 U.S. App. LEXIS 8413; 12 Fla. L. Weekly Fed. C 777

    May 4, 1999, Decided
    PRIOR HISTORY: [**1] Appeal from the United States District Court for the Southern District of Georgia. (No. CR496-148). B. Avant Edenfield, Judge.

    DISPOSITION: AFFIRMED.

    CASE SUMMARY
    PROCEDURAL POSTURE: Appellant challenged orders of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Georgia, which entered convictions for five separate firearms offenses, sentenced him to 78 months incarceration, and denied his motions for acquittal and a new trial.

    OVERVIEW: A jury convicted appellant of five separate firearm offenses. The trial court denied his motions for acquittal and a new trial. Appellant received a 78-month sentence. The appellate court affirmed. Appellant argued the evidence was insufficient to sustain his conviction for possession of an unregistered short-barreled rifle. The appellate court disagreed. A short-barreled upper receiver unit and a Colt AR-15 lower receiver unit were found in appellant's small apartment. The units could be connected quickly and easily, creating an operable short-barreled rifle. Evidence that appellant possessed both of these units was sufficient to prove that he possessed a rifle having a barrel of less than 16 inches in length for purposes of the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C.S. § 5861(d). It was undisputed that appellant had not registered this weapon.

    OUTCOME: Appellant's convictions and sentence were affirmed. The evidence was sufficient to support the jury's verdict and the trial court's denial of appellant's motion for acquittal. The trial court did not abuse its discretion when it denied appellant's motion for a new trial.
     

    matt

    No one special
    Apr 9, 2011
    1,576
    Never Surrender: yuck..... I don't like seeing that- (not that I have anything that could be considered constructive possession) thats akin to saying - you have a 12 pack in the trunk and a car- you're obviously drunk driving or going to.

    Do you know if the defendant in the case only had one lower and one upper (SBR) in possession so as to make the case- why have only the two parts?
     

    NeverSurrender

    Audentis Fortuna Iuvat
    Apr 3, 2013
    286
    Carroll County, MD
    Don't know any details beyond the post. But just a quick web check convinced me that this is nothing to mess with. Follow the letter of the law. The penalties are too harsh, why take a chance.
     

    matt

    No one special
    Apr 9, 2011
    1,576
    Don't know any details beyond the post. But just a quick web check convinced me that this is nothing to mess with. Follow the letter of the law. The penalties are too harsh, why take a chance.

    I wouldn't even consider taking that kind of a chance- I try to avoid j-walking, since it's "breaking the law" (and it also delays my arrival to work- which is a good thing!). :-)

    How would things change if an individual had a AR style pistol (with a assembled lower with pistol buffer assembly) as well as a rifle AR lower (and related non-SBR upper)?

    Even IF the SBR/pistol length upper and rifle lower are NEVER assembled- one could.... Still say "constructive possession".

    Food for thought- I enjoy intellectual discussions and I am not looking for legal advice.
     

    NeverSurrender

    Audentis Fortuna Iuvat
    Apr 3, 2013
    286
    Carroll County, MD
    IANAL but seems to me if you had an AR pistol and your only short barreled upper was mated to it, that it would be a stretch to say that your intention was to remove the upper and mate it to an AR lower to make an illegal SBR. As opposed to the situation where you have a short barreled upper and the only thing you have to mate it to is a lower with a stock.
     

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