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Old February 10th, 2019, 01:03 PM #1
Zorros Zorros is offline
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357 sig over penetration?

The air marshalls and secret service are said to use them. Gold dots? What’s the down side to this round via over penetration, and why would the air marshalls use it in a crowded venue if this was the case? I shoot mine in a g33 and find it faster back on target than my g27. Or at least i imagine that to be the case.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 01:14 PM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorros View Post
The air marshalls and secret service are said to use them. Gold dots? What’s the down side to this round via over penetration, and why would the air marshalls use it in a crowded venue if this was the case? I shoot mine in a g33 and find it faster back on target than my g27. Or at least i imagine that to be the case.
A bit off topic but do you find yours louder?

I find the recoil much less in my 31C/32C vs 22C/23C. Shot my 27C side by side with a 27 just for comparison yesterday, felt recoil about 1/3 less.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 01:35 PM #3
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A bit off topic but do you find yours louder?

I find the recoil much less in my 31C/32C vs 22C/23C. Shot my 27C side by side with a 27 just for comparison yesterday, felt recoil about 1/3 less.
I have shot it a lot, inside and out, but always with ears. I noticed no noise difference. Yesterday a guy was shooting a 10” ar about 25’ from me ( outside) and with ears, it made a lovely sound.
Recoil is fine, but after a couple of boxes of 357 i sometimes put a lone wolf 9mm barrel and 9 mag and shoot 124 gr range ammo and then you really notice the diff.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 02:11 PM #4
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Call for Blaster 229. Call for Blaster 229.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 02:43 PM #5
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The air marshalls and secret service are said to use them. Gold dots? What’s the down side to this round via over penetration, and why would the air marshalls use it in a crowded venue if this was the case?.
while we don't want over-penetration (hitting the good guy behind the bad guy, or perhaps even worse, hitting the fuselage), maybe in their case, reducing the chance of under-penetration (and a bad guy still shooting or pulling a grenade pin or bomb trigger) is worth the risk of over-penetration?

that said, i have no idea what the gel or other penetration tests show between basic 9mm, +p+ and 357 sig.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 05:21 PM #6
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The usual "gripes" about ( such high vel medium bores , of various ctg cases , but similar velocities, with jhp ) is alledging Under penetration .
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Old February 10th, 2019, 05:43 PM #7
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or perhaps even worse, hitting the fuselage)
Poking a hole in the fuselage is not a big deal. The cabin outflow valve is about the size of a normal door.

The pressurization system pumps WAY more air into the cabin than needed. The max pressurization limit is a limit of the fuselage to not pop, not because of amount of air.

Yes, there is a potential to poke a hole in something that is more critical. But just a hole in the fuselage is not a huge issue.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 10:49 PM #8
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https://www.luckygunner.com/speer-35...sgd-20#geltest
13" of penetration in this test from the gold dots. Not really a lot of overpenetration. The velocity would help them punch hard things pretty well though. The ability to penetrate cover and still cause good trauma can be pretty useful if you've got to shoot through a seat or carry-on to get to a threat.
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Old February 11th, 2019, 04:39 AM #9
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When 9/11 happened and the FAM service ramped up, it was retired agents who became new Directors and Heads of the agency.
It was their fault we got the P229 in 357 Sig. They already had the contacts and a blank check. So it was done.
No special testing, rhyme or reason the round was chosen. It's just what "they carried when they did the job".
It is indeed the flattest traveling, most accurate round out to 100 yards that I know of. Not that that is needed, especially in a plane.
That being said, every other country FAMs use 9mm.
The 229 is a great pistol, but a terrible one for concealed carry. Way too big/ heavy. We should have had G19s or something similar.
I've never had a FTF with a .357 round. I believe the tapered shape is the reason why.
Over penetration isn't a problem in the side of the fuselage. An airplane is a controlled leak. It sure can make up for what goes through that hole. Another thing is that the pilots would get the plane down to 10k in no time where we can all enjoy the 14.7 psi and relax
Shooting directly into the floor could pose a problem though. There's more important plane controlling stuff going on under there.
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Old February 11th, 2019, 11:28 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaster229 View Post
When 9/11 happened and the FAM service ramped up, it was retired agents who became new Directors and Heads of the agency.
It was their fault we got the P229 in 357 Sig. They already had the contacts and a blank check. So it was done.
No special testing, rhyme or reason the round was chosen. It's just what "they carried when they did the job".
It is indeed the flattest traveling, most accurate round out to 100 yards that I know of. Not that that is needed, especially in a plane.
That being said, every other country FAMs use 9mm.
The 229 is a great pistol, but a terrible one for concealed carry. Way too big/ heavy. We should have had G19s or something similar.
I've never had a FTF with a .357 round. I believe the tapered shape is the reason why.
Over penetration isn't a problem in the side of the fuselage. An airplane is a controlled leak. It sure can make up for what goes through that hole. Another thing is that the pilots would get the plane down to 10k in no time where we can all enjoy the 14.7 psi and relax
Shooting directly into the floor could pose a problem though. There's more important plane controlling stuff going on under there.
And things like fuel tanks.

Oh, pressure at 10K is 10.1 psi, but still enough to supply enough O2, to the brain. Actually you are good up to about 12.5K for most people, and even 15K for up to 30 minutes.
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