$59 NFA trust
- Thread starter dontpanic
- Start date
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Yep! Like I'm going to trust 5, 10, or 20 grand worth of class 3 stuff to a sixty dollar trust.
Oh, it can be expensive and be wrong too. It can be free and be right. I'm just supesious of these "one size fits all" stuff. Trusts are state specific. If it's wrong, it's wrong and the Fed doesn't check it. But if they ever do, and they find it wrong. What then?
I had an attorney tell me that if a trust is declared invalid, then the assets of the trust would be declared to be acquired illegally. He said once NFA stuff is declared illegal, it can never be legal. SCMIIW
I had an attorney tell me that if a trust is declared invalid, then the assets of the trust would be declared to be acquired illegally. He said once NFA stuff is declared illegal, it can never be legal. SCMIIW
I trust my NFA items to one of these trusts. I also had it checked by a lawyer.
I put this out there for anyone who is comfortable using this kind of trust. There are horrible stories about lawyer generated trusts, but I have not heard anything bad about these.
I put this out there for anyone who is comfortable using this kind of trust. There are horrible stories about lawyer generated trusts, but I have not heard anything bad about these.
- Apr 11, 2014
- 382
This companies trusts are state specific. I see no problem with them.
But are they right? That's the big question.
I guess the big question is will they back you up if the trust ever comes into question?
I guess the big question is will they back you up if the trust ever comes into question?
cap6888
Ultimate Member
What are the specifics that need to make it "right"? I would guess that most Trust language is boiler plate type stuff. Are there certain things that must be written in when it involves NFA items?
I think the concern is if it meets the legal requirement for a trust in a particular state. The NFA trust is a seems bit of a marketing thing.
Last edited:
Straightshooter
Ultimate Member
My NFA Trust has quite a few references to both of those subjects and state law.
I'll read mine again. Been a while.
Edit: I was wrong. There are multiple references to NFA items and prohibited persons.
I think the concerns of "are the right" come from folks who paid hundreds of dollars for essentially the same document and now need to bolster their decision by shitting on anyone who disagrees.
Lawyers screw things up DAILY, in every State and every Country. Assuming you've got an iron clad document based on what you paid or who prepared it would be foolish to say the least.
Lawyers screw things up DAILY, in every State and every Country. Assuming you've got an iron clad document based on what you paid or who prepared it would be foolish to say the least.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
All and NFA trust is, is a Revocable Living Trust.
Each state has specific requirements for a trust to be valid in the state. Same thing goes with Wills.
Maryland has its own requirements on what must be in a trust:
Md. ESTATES AND TRUSTS Code Ann. § 14.5-401 (2014)
§ 14.5-401. Creation of trust.
A trust may be created by:
(1) Transfer of property to another person as trustee during the lifetime of the settlor or by will or other disposition taking effect on the death of the settlor;
(2) Declaration by the owner of property that the owner holds identifiable property as trustee; or
(3) Exercise of a power of appointment in favor of a trustee.
Md. ESTATES AND TRUSTS Code Ann. § 14.5-402 (2014)
§ 14.5-402. Requirements.
(a) In general. -- A trust is created only if:
(1) The settlor has capacity to create a trust;
(2) The settlor indicates an intention to create the trust;
(3) The trust has a definite beneficiary or is:
(i) A charitable trust;
(ii) A trust for the care of an animal, as provided in § 14.5-407 of this subtitle; or
(iii) A trust for a noncharitable purpose, as provided in § 14.5-408 of this subtitle; and
(4) The trustee has duties to perform.
(b) Definite beneficiary. -- A beneficiary is definite if the beneficiary can be ascertained now or in the future, subject to any applicable rule against perpetuities.
(c) Power to select beneficiary from indefinite class. --
(1) A power in a trustee or in another person under the terms of the trust to select a beneficiary from an indefinite class is valid.
(2) If the power described in paragraph (1) of this subsection is not exercised within a reasonable time, the power fails and the property subject to the power passes to the persons that would have taken the property had the power not been conferred.
§ 14.5-403. Validity of trust not created by will.
A trust not created by will is validly created if the creation of the trust complies with:
(1) The law of the jurisdiction in which the trust instrument was executed; or
(2) The law of the jurisdiction in which, at the time of creation:
(i) The settlor was domiciled or was a national;
(ii) A trustee of the trust was domiciled or had a place of business; or
(iii) Any trust property was located.
Each state has specific requirements for a trust to be valid in the state. Same thing goes with Wills.
Maryland has its own requirements on what must be in a trust:
Md. ESTATES AND TRUSTS Code Ann. § 14.5-401 (2014)
§ 14.5-401. Creation of trust.
A trust may be created by:
(1) Transfer of property to another person as trustee during the lifetime of the settlor or by will or other disposition taking effect on the death of the settlor;
(2) Declaration by the owner of property that the owner holds identifiable property as trustee; or
(3) Exercise of a power of appointment in favor of a trustee.
Md. ESTATES AND TRUSTS Code Ann. § 14.5-402 (2014)
§ 14.5-402. Requirements.
(a) In general. -- A trust is created only if:
(1) The settlor has capacity to create a trust;
(2) The settlor indicates an intention to create the trust;
(3) The trust has a definite beneficiary or is:
(i) A charitable trust;
(ii) A trust for the care of an animal, as provided in § 14.5-407 of this subtitle; or
(iii) A trust for a noncharitable purpose, as provided in § 14.5-408 of this subtitle; and
(4) The trustee has duties to perform.
(b) Definite beneficiary. -- A beneficiary is definite if the beneficiary can be ascertained now or in the future, subject to any applicable rule against perpetuities.
(c) Power to select beneficiary from indefinite class. --
(1) A power in a trustee or in another person under the terms of the trust to select a beneficiary from an indefinite class is valid.
(2) If the power described in paragraph (1) of this subsection is not exercised within a reasonable time, the power fails and the property subject to the power passes to the persons that would have taken the property had the power not been conferred.
§ 14.5-403. Validity of trust not created by will.
A trust not created by will is validly created if the creation of the trust complies with:
(1) The law of the jurisdiction in which the trust instrument was executed; or
(2) The law of the jurisdiction in which, at the time of creation:
(i) The settlor was domiciled or was a national;
(ii) A trustee of the trust was domiciled or had a place of business; or
(iii) Any trust property was located.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
I would assume it is ironclad based upon who prepared it, not necessarily how much was paid for it.
If it turns out to be a turd and an attorney drafted it, there is always the malpractice route.
Straightshooter
Ultimate Member
Or just maybe its the crowd that went the cheap route who need to bolster their decision to blindly follow and trust some unknown keyboard jockey and now have doubts as to the wisdom of their decision.
Nah, cause they're never the ones breaking the balls of the other group.
Heck with it, have the most prominent, expensive lawyer you can find start (what is nothing more than a template) from a blank piece of paper.
I'm sure it'll be a great conversation piece at ~$2K.
I've had my lawyer draft private financing docs in 30 minutes flat. Straight up from a proven template he uses, secures a ~$400K dollar loan with real property.
Re-invent the wheel if it makes everyone sleep better.
Straightshooter
Ultimate Member
Its not weather they use a template or not, its having the knowledge to be able to determine which sections of that template need to be included and what wording is needed for differing situations. When the difference in being sure its done right is only seething like $150 in this instance, that's money well spent in my opinion. We're not reinventing the wheel, but we're not spinning it blindly either.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
Nah, cause they're never the ones breaking the balls of the other group.
Heck with it, have the most prominent, expensive lawyer you can find start (what is nothing more than a template) from a blank piece of paper.
I'm sure it'll be a great conversation piece at ~$2K.
I've had my lawyer draft private financing docs in 30 minutes flat. Straight up from a proven template he uses, secures a ~$400K dollar loan with real property.
Re-invent the wheel if it makes everyone sleep better.
It isn't about re-inventing the wheel, it is about taking a template and getting it into a specific shape for the client's wishes. Every Will, Trust, etc I draft is based upon a template, but there is a lot to take into account. For instance, who do you want to be the trustee(s) on the NFA trust? I have my wife and brothers. That way, my wife and brothers can use the NFA items without me being present. Who do you want the beneficiaries to be? Do you want any age restriction on when the beneficiaries can have the items transferred out of the trust and to them personally?
The form books I reference for Wills and Trusts are three volumes in length. One size does not fit all. The value of an attorney isn't in drafting the document, but in sitting down with the client, understanding what the client wants to accomplish, and then adjusting the template to accomplish the client's wishes. In practice, attorneys use a lot of form letters and form documents, with appropriate adjustments when needed.
$2k for a NFA trust? I need to raise my rates yet again. Quoted a lady $600 for a Will with a testamentary trust in it, and she turned to me and said "That's all? I feel bad about paying you so little." Told her it was the friends and family rate.
rem87062597
Annapolis, MD
- Jul 13, 2012
- 641
I think there's so much controversy over this because there's really no good way to see unbiased trust service reviews. That's how I buy pretty much everything, by looking at reviews first, and in the absence of that information I'm probably the most willing to go with whatever product seems to be the most popular. Trust service reviews don't really exist though, and if they did I would doubt that the reviewers actually knew the slightest thing about law.
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