Mag Orientation

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  • Vjornaxx

    Twelve
    Mar 8, 2010
    285
    Baltimore, MD
    This is how I practice:

    ...with rounds facing forward. It seems quicker and easier to grab a fresh mag as the motion is similar to going from pointing your left hand in front of you to pointing your left hand towards your hip. I'm not nearly as fast or as smooth as a lot of guys out there, but that's what practice is for.
     

    Kilroy

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 27, 2011
    3,069
    The reason rounds to the rear is slower and less reliable is
    #1 Your wrist makes a sharper angle to grab the mag than rounds forward. The beer can grip is harder to achieve than palming the baseplate.
    You make a good point here.
    #2 Beer can grip doesn't allow you to have your index finger along the leading edge of the mag to guide it into place. This is very beneficial at speed, particularly when stressed.
    My index is on the leading edge of the mag.
    #3 Not palming the mag on the way up means you have to transition to the heel strike in the middle of insertion, which can lead to fumbling or failure to fully seat the magazine.
    It is in my palm, when my index touches the magwell, I just open my hand and push the mag in.
    But, you can keep handicapping yourself and convincing yourself not to change if you like, just to avoid twisting the mag half of a turn.

    I kinda think the difference between the two is rotation on the Z axis vs. Y axis rotation. That's about it.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    Im right handed.

    I follow the same philosophy on my reloads for handguns and rifles.

    Bullets rearward on the weak side belt reload. Bullets to the left on my vest/chest.

    I do this because I run AK's and AR's. I use HSGI Taco Pouches each Taco carries any rifle mag I want, and any pistol mag I want for each pouch.

    Anyone saying that bullets forward weak side reloads on an AK is more efficient than bullets rearward is crazy.

    I see alot of people use slide stops to release the slide as well. I slingshot.
     

    Numidian

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 25, 2007
    5,337
    Shrewsbury, PA
    Kilroy, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat. If you are comfortable with your method then you should keep on keeping on.

    Look at reloading shotguns and how many different variations people are using.
     

    Numidian

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jul 25, 2007
    5,337
    Shrewsbury, PA
    Im right handed.

    I follow the same philosophy on my reloads for handguns and rifles.

    Bullets rearward on the weak side belt reload. Bullets to the left on my vest/chest.

    I do this because I run AK's and AR's. I use HSGI Taco Pouches each Taco carries any rifle mag I want, and any pistol mag I want for each pouch.

    Anyone saying that bullets forward weak side reloads on an AK is more efficient than bullets rearward is crazy.

    OMG! How can you possibly be running handgun mags with bullets to the rear! Blasphemer! :lol2:

    I don't think anyone is arguing about the rifle mag orientation. An AK or an AR mag, either would be uncomfortable as hell to run bullets forward.
     

    Dogabutila

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 21, 2010
    2,359
    Why is twisting the mag half a turn beneficial? It adds unnecessarily complication for no benefit. All these points brought up like indexing the mag etc don't even really apply since I index the mag in anyways. My wrist doesn't make a sharper angle, my elbow just comes slightly farther back. It's even a more natural motion. Hold anything in your hand near the bottom pointing it up like a phone or something and put it in your pocket. The edge facing away from you when holding the item in front of you naturally faces towards the back in your pocket.


    It's really just a half twist for no apparent reason other then a preferred initial grip.
     

    Vjornaxx

    Twelve
    Mar 8, 2010
    285
    Baltimore, MD
    The goal is a fast and smooth reload every time. You can achieve that goal using either mag orientation so long as you practice practice practice.
     

    RobMoore

    The Mad Scientist
    Feb 10, 2007
    4,765
    QA
    Dog, you may be able to argue with me (even though I haven't seen it yet) but you can't argue with success. The best in the world do it the way I'm advocating. If your way had merit, at least some of them would be using it.
     

    Kilroy

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 27, 2011
    3,069
    You just demonstrated the logical fallacies of appeal to authority, and appeal to popularity.
     

    RobMoore

    The Mad Scientist
    Feb 10, 2007
    4,765
    QA
    It's not authority or popularity. It's scientific testing.

    You can't argue that water inside your car's tires is better than air.

    P. S. Just using those two terms you did as an argument is in itself an appeal to authority and popularity. I'm guilty of the logical fallacy of trying to help someone who doesn't want it, and will cut off his own nose to spite his face.
     

    Kilroy

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 27, 2011
    3,069
    It's not authority or popularity. It's scientific testing.

    You can't argue that water inside your car's tires is better than air.

    P. S. Just using those two terms you did as an argument is in itself an appeal to authority and popularity. I'm guilty of the logical fallacy of trying to help someone who doesn't want it, and will cut off his own nose to spite his face.

    Can you give me the scientific reason then? I guess I missed it. My theory is that bullets backward is better because the mag rotates on one axis, and goes straight into the gun without a half twist. Using logic, disprove my statement please.
     

    RobMoore

    The Mad Scientist
    Feb 10, 2007
    4,765
    QA
    What you missed, Kilroy, is that your theory that your way is better has been shown to be false with testing. Rounds forward has been proven to be faster.

    There are some areas of technique that are varied due to style, such as feet width, arm bend, etc. Then there is just plain bad habits, such as operating the trigger with your middle finger (exception being those with a handicap preventing the use of the index finger).
     

    Dogabutila

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 21, 2010
    2,359
    What you missed, Kilroy, is that your theory that your way is better has been shown to be false with testing. Rounds forward has been proven to be faster.

    There are some areas of technique that are varied due to style, such as feet width, arm bend, etc. Then there is just plain bad habits, such as operating the trigger with your middle finger (exception being those with a handicap preventing the use of the index finger).

    Proven by who? Show me the science.
     

    RobMoore

    The Mad Scientist
    Feb 10, 2007
    4,765
    QA
    The fields of competition, obviously. You know, places with timing equipment.

    Combat has way too many variables to compare the difference, plus they rarely have nonparticipating and impartial observers to record the data.
     

    Kilroy

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 27, 2011
    3,069
    Some truckers put golf balls in their tires, no kidding.

    Still not seeing the data or logical reasoning in this thread, even after I refresh the page. I'm going to change monitors, brb.
     

    RobMoore

    The Mad Scientist
    Feb 10, 2007
    4,765
    QA
    See if you can find someone with functional eyesight, barring that I can help you no further. See you in another thread.
     

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