machining to use other than 209 primers

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Harrys

    Short Round
    Jul 12, 2014
    3,362
    SOMD
    A friend of a friend has a working Hawkins percussion that can use rifle primers or large pistol primers. From what I saw it works well without any miss fires. He is a machinist and works for a major government contractor. I promised that I would not discuss his design as he has submitted pattens for it. His patten attorney did some research and there appears not to be a current patten on what he has done.

    Basically, the OEM nipple is redesigned along with the OEM hammer. Which can be done for any percussion rifle OEM hammer and nipple. The primers come out easily with just your fingers. He is not sure if he will sell the patten or actually starting a business to do it himself. He is still researching all possibilities.
     

    Rambler

    Doing the best with the worst.
    Oct 22, 2011
    2,162
    No offense meant, but the correct term is spelled patent.

    Patent attorneys are in the business of collecting fees. Some basic searches can be done using google patent search and the USPTO website itself.

    I have considered patenting some independent inventions. But, the cost versus yield is too great. My employer paid for the research and filing of the 6 I did on their time and dime. As such, they own the rights to them.

    If he is willing and able to pay for and be awarded a patent, maybe go for it.

    However, the sad truth in the invention world, is that the best way to find out if you have a marketable idea is to patent it and then either produce it yourself or shop it around. The companies that believe they can make money on it will go into production and you can have a lawyer ($$$) duel with them.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    Design patents are easy to file, easy to bypass by changing a certain Percentage of the design and hard to defend. Basically you just stop someone from making a direct exact copy . Plus you have to enforce the patent with an attorney you pay for. One gun designer went broke defending his patents.

    Good luck with it though


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    guzma393

    Active Member
    Jan 15, 2020
    736
    Severn, MD
    Not a patent attorney, but I work as a patent drafter. I'm curious about the claimed material of the patent(s) he filed.

    If its simply scaling the percussion 209 primer conversions I quickly googled about to accept a large/small primer, a patent examiner may pass his invention as something "obvious" aka easily implemented by an expert in the industry. Not trying to dismiss the uniqueness and effectiveness of his invention, but it is the patent examiner's job to find any "prior art" that can reject the patentability of his invention.

    Overall, it really depends how those claims were presented in the design patent, utility patent, or both.
     

    Harrys

    Short Round
    Jul 12, 2014
    3,362
    SOMD
    The guy is very familiar with the entire patent process, as he had several patents done as a government contractor for his company. From what I saw and no way an expert, his design is nothing like a retro redo of existing 209 and other primers for black powder rifles. Especially the self-ejection method of the primer after firing and the hand tool that reloads them without fumbling with fingers. He has fires over many rounds without any failures of ejection and installation of the primers.

    I think a better mouse trap has been built.
     

    RRomig

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 30, 2021
    1,924
    Burtonsville MD
    Just curious why you posted up here about a friends invention that he is seeking a patent ? Last thing I would want would be a internet discussion about my new yet to be patented product. Is this market research?
    Truly not picking just trying to see the up side.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    Sounds like a solution looking for a problem to me.
    Whats the matter with regular no# 11's or musket caps?
    Or even 209's for that matter.
    Once or twice maybe that I can remember I loaded a few rifles to where I was getting hammer blow-back on cap locks working up a load.
    Both times I was using a plastic or nylon sabot.
    If the same rifle was working a 209 I don't know that I would be able to tell.
     

    Harrys

    Short Round
    Jul 12, 2014
    3,362
    SOMD
    Just curious why you posted up here about a friends invention that he is seeking a patent ? Last thing I would want would be a internet discussion about my new yet to be patented product. Is this market research?
    Truly not picking just trying to see the up side.

    He has no heart burn about discussing from his lips to GOD. There are no pictures or exact description on what it actually looks like mechanically. It is the same thing as: we are going to Mars how we do it is another thing. You know it is going to be a rocket, some kind of landing vehicle and so on. Oh, by the way he is submitting his paten shortly. He guesses it will be about a year or so before approval. Also, he has submitted it for all modern rifle and pistol primers except for the 209s as it has already been done.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    If he made it where you do. It need to replace the hammer and just the nipple like the 209 adapters there, I think it would be good. One thing I don’t know is the amount of energy that the different caps and primer produce.
    Sidelock caps on the nipples spew a stream of sparks to ignite a certain way. 209 shotgun primers, especially magnums put out a lot of spark.
    Here is the CCI energy chart
    Needed I go would be #10/#11/musket cap and different 209 primers to compare.

    6c29627a49105268409be787eddaf2b0.jpg



    At this moment in time. Percussion and musket primers are easy to get. Pistol And rifle primers although not as easy do seem easier than any 209 primers to find

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,921
    Messages
    7,259,024
    Members
    33,349
    Latest member
    christian04

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom