Walther PPQ Match 5 SF Pro

knastera · Feb 5, 2020

Occam said:
Super-duper good info, there, about CZ's bewildering nomenclature. My wife and I now have his and hers Shadow-things. Hers sits in her (much smaller than mine) hands far better than my Shadow 2. Her 75-based "Tac II" (a kind-of-stock custom shop job from CZ) is definitely a bit lighter, and has an even nicer trigger with a shorter reach. It's a treat to shoot, though I'm now used to the S2's chunkier build - suits my big mitts better. In another thread, I posted photos of the two together. This link should take you into the right part of that thread:

https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=5611509&postcount=26

Hope that sheds light on the differences.

Hi Occam. This is also very helpful. I have to say that I am so impressed with how this thread has developed. No fan-boys, no haters, just great personal accounts and well-founded opinions. I must admit that I was reluctant to start this thread because of how often I’ve seen these things break down into unprofessional and useless exchanges of banter. Instead, I’m dealing with mature adults trying to help me make a smart purchase decision.

By the way, Occam, I love your razor. I use it often. (For those unfamiliar with Occam’s Razor, here is an explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor?wprov=sfti1).

Occam · Feb 5, 2020

knastera said:
By the way, Occam, I love your razor. I use it often.

And I love it when someone gets it! It seems, these days, I have to keep it extra sharp.

Like you, I really appreciate threads like this. Some choice ones have definitely helped think through purchases, choices of shooting venues, and more. Sorry I’m not just down the street from you, or we’d be putting some lead through both those pistols - for science!

knastera · Feb 5, 2020

Occam said:
And I love it when someone gets it! It seems, these days, I have to keep it extra sharp.

Like you, I really appreciate threads like this. Some choice ones have definitely helped think through purchases, choices of shooting venues, and more. Sorry I’m not just down the street from you, or we’d be putting some lead through both those pistols - for science!

I’d make a trip to MoCo for that opportunity.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Czechnologist · Feb 5, 2020

Occam said:
Super-duper good info, there, about CZ's bewildering nomenclature. My wife and I now have his and hers Shadow-things. Hers sits in her (much smaller than mine) hands far better than my Shadow 2. Her 75-based "Tac II" (a kind-of-stock custom shop job from CZ) is definitely a bit lighter, and has an even nicer trigger with a shorter reach. It's a treat to shoot, though I'm now used to the S2's chunkier build - suits my big mitts better. In another thread, I posted photos of the two together. This link should take you into the right part of that thread:

https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=5611509&postcount=26

Hope that sheds light on the differences.

I think if the OP could get his hands on a Shadow Tac II, like yours, he'd probably forget all about that Walther!

Occam · Feb 5, 2020

knastera said:
I’d make a trip to MoCo for that opportunity.

I'd be willing to meet you half way and hit an open-to-the-public range in the Frederick area. Say, TMGN? Good excuse to head to Costco while I'm out and about

While life is busy, it's busy in flexible ways. Drop me a PM if you want to make it happen, and we'll work it out.

knastera · Feb 5, 2020

Zzzzz_man said:
I think if the OP could get his hands on a Shadow Tac II, like yours, he'd probably forget all about that Walther!

We’re working on getting together to shoot. One of the challenges I’m facing is that CZ doesn’t seem to care a lick for lefties. None of these great looking guns have slide locks/releases on the right side of the gun. Companies like Walther, Canik, Sig Sauer, Glock, and Taurus all have guns with left hand friendly controls. While CZ has the safety on both sides, there are no slide controls. I don’t care about safeties because I don’t use them. Ambi mag releases don’t matter because ever since I carried a 1911 as an Army Officer, I use my left middle finger to drop mags. The thing is, this is not only a lefty thing because all good shooters practice weak side firing. Having said that, I’m still willing to give it a go. I’m just surprised and a bit disappointed that CZ doesn’t address that.

gwchem · Feb 5, 2020

knastera said:
We’re working on getting together to shoot. One of the challenges I’m facing is that CZ doesn’t seem to care a lick for lefties. None of these great looking guns have slide locks/releases on the right side of the gun. Companies like Walther, Canik, Sig Sauer, Glock, and Taurus all have guns with left hand friendly controls. While CZ has the safety on both sides, there are no slide controls. I don’t care about safeties because I don’t use them. Ambi mag releases don’t matter because ever since I carried a 1911 as an Army Officer, I use my left middle finger to drop mags. The thing is, this is not only a lefty thing because all good shooters practice weak side firing. Having said that, I’m still willing to give it a go. I’m just surprised and a bit disappointed that CZ doesn’t address that.

All valid points.

Just remember that you're deciding between several high quality, accurate, soft-shooting phenomenal guns. Folks are debating slight differences between them. I'm sure you could be fast and accurate with any, because there are folks shooting all of them at high levels of competition.

I'm preferential to cz, but I'm a righty.

knastera · Feb 5, 2020

Occam said:
I'd be willing to meet you half way and hit an open-to-the-public range in the Frederick area. Say, TMGN? Good excuse to head to Costco while I'm out and about

While life is busy, it's busy in flexible ways. Drop me a PM if you want to make it happen, and we'll work it out.

IM sent. Thanks.

knastera · Feb 5, 2020

gwchem said:
All valid points.

Just remember that you're deciding between several high quality, accurate, soft-shooting phenomenal guns. Folks are debating slight differences between them. I'm sure you could be fast and accurate with any, because there are folks shooting all of them at high levels of competition.

I'm preferential to cz, but I'm a righty.

The single most important factor is the soft shooting, so if it is that much better, I’m willing to forgo the slide lock. My medical condition is taking away my ability to handle recoil without significant pain afterwards. I have two 357s, two 40s, and two 45s. I’m only going to be able to handle a small amount of shooting those, so I want to have the best 9mm experience possible. I’m not planning on quitting or going rimfire only any time soon, so I have to protect what I have.

gwchem · Feb 5, 2020

Is there any chance you'll be shooting competition? Shadow 2 is good for uspsa, and steel challenge, but not idpa (it's too heavy).

The sigs feel really nice to me, but I've only shot the x5 and it's the lightest of the bunch.

What about a 9mm cz tactical sport orange? It's even heavier than the shadow, but is single action only like your 1911s. This will absolutely, without a doubt in my mind, have the nicest trigger of any on your list, and it's pretty close to your budget.

knastera · Feb 5, 2020

gwchem said:
Is there any chance you'll be shooting competition? Shadow 2 is good for uspsa, and steel challenge, but not idpa (it's too heavy).

The sigs feel really nice to me, but I've only shot the x5 and it's the lightest of the bunch.

What about a 9mm cz tactical sport orange? It's even heavier than the shadow, but is single action only like your 1911s. This will absolutely, without a doubt in my mind, have the nicest trigger of any on your list, and it's pretty close to your budget.

Thanks for the input. Competition is not in my use case. I’m looking for a 40oz-ish competition gun to mitigate recoil because of osteoarthritis in my hands.

knastera · Feb 5, 2020

Here is another variable at a lower price point. What about the Sig Sauer P320 X5 Legion? I have a full sized P320 in 40 S&W that I enjoy shooting apart from the recoil. The X5 Legion is in the 43 oz range, optic ready, fully ambidextrous, and by all reports, has an amazing trigger. With the $1,000-ish price point, I could put a Romeo1Pro on it. I watched a Colion Noir review of it and he absolutely gushed over it. Thoughts?

Also, I have a P320C frame, slide, and suppressor barrel, so the option of moving the Legion Fire control module into it is something to consider.

Occam · Feb 6, 2020

As I ponder your recoil concern, I also find myself wondering what sort of ammo you'll typically be using. I notice, for example, that the felt behavior of my usual CZ varies pretty wildly when I go from petite little 115g up to my most commonly shot 124g, and then on to sub-sonic 147g, which delivers quite a shove (and less of a snap). Do you have a flavor you usually (or must) use?

knastera · Feb 6, 2020

Occam said:
As I ponder your recoil concern, I also find myself wondering what sort of ammo you'll typically be using. I notice, for example, that the felt behavior of my usual CZ varies pretty wildly when I go from petite little 115g up to my most commonly shot 124g, and then on to sub-sonic 147g, which delivers quite a shove (and less of a snap). Do you have a flavor you usually (or must) use?

My favorite is Speer Lawman in 124gr. I also enjoy Federal American Eagle 147gr 990fps. The American Eagle will probably be my go to because of the recoil. It’s also the best round through my P320C when suppressed.

knastera · Feb 6, 2020

I found this video to be very helpful: https://youtu.be/aUCI1jInvwA

Three of the four guns in the video are candidates in my quest. Clearly, the CZ Tactical Sport is the winner. In second place was the Sig P320 X5 Legion. The Walther is at the bottom. Occam and I are going to have some CZ fun in a few weeks. If I can release the slide on the CZ with my left index finger, like I used to with my USGI 1911A1, then I might just get over the hump of CZ “right privilege.”

Occam · Feb 6, 2020

knastera said:
I found this video to be very helpful: https://youtu.be/aUCI1jInvwA

Three of the four guns in the video are candidates in my quest. Clearly, the CZ Tactical Sport is the winner. In second place was the Sig P320 X5 Legion. The Walther is at the bottom. Occam and I are going to have some CZ fun in a few weeks. If I can release the slide on the CZ with my left index finger, like I used to with my USGI 1911A1, then I might just get over the hump of CZ “right privilege.”

I'm a righty, but CZ's case of Right Supremacy never really plays into it for me, because the only time I ever use the slide lock is when I'm manually locking the slide back for some reason. When shooting, I'm always a rack-it-with-the-support-hand-and-let-it-go guy.

But: here's a quick and dirty video of me playing lefty in your scenario with the S2. For me, the slide release is a left index finger tap. It's a surprisingly light touch, actually - many of my pistols require quite a bit more force to release the slide lock.

[VM]389863904[/VM]

knastera · Feb 6, 2020

Occam said:
I'm a righty, but CZ's case of Right Supremacy never really plays into it for me, because the only time I ever use the slide lock is when I'm manually locking the slide back for some reason. When shooting, I'm always a rack-it-with-the-support-hand-and-let-it-go guy.

But: here's a quick and dirty video of me playing lefty in your scenario with the S2. For me, the slide release is a left index finger tap. It's a surprisingly light touch, actually - many of my pistols require quite a bit more force to release the slide lock.

[VM]389863904[/VM]

I couldn’t see the video, but I take your word for it. I do the same as you when loading a gun. The slingshot method is the right way to go. However, I do a lot of teaching and I’m constantly handing students guns. I need to be able to lock slides open. I can lock any 1911 open left handed with outside of the second knuckle on my left index finger, so it looks like I’ll be good to go for the CZ. That’s great news.

fidelity · Feb 6, 2020

If in Frederick (TMGN or Heritage), keep me in the loop when you and Occam might go. If it works out, I can bring my Q5 Match, P226 Legion SAO (not quite the P320 X5 Legion that looks awesome), and maybe another 9mm gun or two. If the weather's fine, I can also detour us to the Monocacy Pistol Club (where Zzzzz_man, I, and a few more on the board also shoot). Although it's not available in a steel frame (insofar as I know, haven't kept up), the HK VP9 might be also nice to compare to, in case you haven't shot one before.

knastera · Feb 6, 2020

fidelity said:
If in Frederick (TMGN or Heritage), keep me in the loop when you and Occam might go. If it works out, I can bring my Q5 Match, P226 Legion SAO (not quite the P320 X5 Legion that looks awesome), and maybe another 9mm gun or two. If the weather's fine, I can also detour us to the Monocacy Pistol Club (where Zzzzz_man, I, and a few more on the board also shoot). Although it's not available in a steel frame (insofar as I know, haven't kept up), the HK VP9 might be also nice to compare to, in case you haven't shot one before.

Hi. I just chatted with Occam. I’ll PM you in a minute.

inkd · Feb 6, 2020

knastera said:
If I can release the slide on the CZ with my left index finger, like I used to with my USGI 1911A1, then I might just get over the hump of CZ “right privilege.”

I think you will be fine with releasing the slide lock with your index finger. I'm a lefty and have shot a friend of mine's CZ's and have no problems.

If I wasn't so heavily invested in 1911's and Glocks, I would have CZ's.

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