Backward bullets

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  • Oct 27, 2008
    8,444
    Dundalk, Hon!
    I'm waiting for the stupid 7 day waiting period to go by so I can pick up the nice, used S&W Model 64 I paid for yesterday. I'm getting it because I have a mess of .38 Special to burn up, and because it's a Smith & Wesson (my first, whoo-hoo!). The .38 Special ammo is 158 grain LSWC and reloaded by a professional company.

    Here's the thing: Two of the 400 rounds have the bullet in reversed or backwards. Based on my experience with mid-range wad cutter ammo (cylindrical bullets) and black powder revolvers, I'm inclined to think I can safely shoot them. The only problem I can see would be if the cylinder was not lined up with the barrel at lock-up, but it does line up and lock up very well. If it didn't it would be a serious problem with any ammo I used.

    However, it's at least theoretically possible I could be mistaken. :D What say you, friends?
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,365
    SoMD / West PA
    If they're just lead semi wad cutters, just whittle down the backward bullets into a cone shape, and then shoot :D

    Otherwise you might have a little splatter, if the cylinder isn't lined up 100%.
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,233
    Carroll County
    If 2 of 400 are loaded backwards, it makes me wonder about the quality control of the reloading company. How many cases are double charged? How many squibs? Did someone just dip the cases full of Bullseye, and stuff a bullet in to cork it?


    Ka-boom?



    Great buy on the revolver though. You must post pictures. Where'd you get it? There are some really nice pre-lock police trade- ins whispering to me like sirens...

    " come, fondle me...posess me...own me...use me..."


    I'm not sure I can hold out.
     

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    Oct 27, 2008
    8,444
    Dundalk, Hon!
    If they're just lead semi wad cutters, just whittle down the backward bullets into a cone shape, and then shoot :D

    Otherwise you might have a little splatter, if the cylinder isn't lined up 100%.

    Ah, but the cylinder charge holes do line up beautifully with the bore (I checked it). I'm thinking these slugs will just act like standard mid-range target wad cutters that start out flush with the mouth of the case. Also, these bullets have a good amount of chamfering around the base.

    To my way of thinking, these rounds should produce less pressure due to less bullet/more airspace in the case. If I shoot them, it'll be one at a time and I'll make sure the bullet actually left the bore.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    sounds like a dum-dum bullet. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot32.htm i personally just wouldn't shoot those and be inclined to research the company i got them from a little more before putting the others into my gun....that's a pretty low quality control standard if they're letting those through.
     
    Oct 27, 2008
    8,444
    Dundalk, Hon!
    If 2 of 400 are loaded backwards, it makes me wonder about the quality control of the reloading company. How many cases are double charged? How many squibs? Did someone just dip the cases full of Bullseye, and stuff a bullet in to cork it?

    Ka-boom?

    I've checked the manufacturer http://www.bullseyeshootingsupplies.com/. They're a solid outfit and I've no worries about quality. At least, no more than usual.

    Great buy on the revolver though. You must post pictures. Where'd you get it?

    It's at The Gun Shop in Essex. To be brutally honest, I'm paying top-of-the-market price for it, but I believe in supporting local shops and dang it, I just prefer to hold the bleeding thing before I plunk down money for it.

    Oh, there will be pics, not to worry.

    There are some really nice pre-lock police trade- ins whispering to me like sirens...

    " come, fondle me...possess me...own me...use me..."

    I'm not sure I can hold out.

    I know how that is, and tin foil caps are useless against them. :D
     
    Oct 27, 2008
    8,444
    Dundalk, Hon!
    sounds like a dum-dum bullet. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot32.htm i personally just wouldn't shoot those and be inclined to research the company i got them from a little more before putting the others into my gun....that's a pretty low quality control standard if they're letting those through.

    Not a dum-dum or any other kind of fragmenting or expanding bullet. These are standard 158 grain lead semi-wad cutters that are loaded into the case nose-first. I agree it's not the best QC, but I've no reason to think there are dangerous pressure levels here. I fired reversed lead round-nosed bullets in a .38 Special some years ago without any trouble.
     

    Idempotent

    Zombies' Worst Nightmare
    Apr 12, 2010
    1,623
    If it's just two rounds out of 400, I wouldn't risk it. Just weigh the potential upsides versus the potential downsides. If they loaded the bullets in reverse ... what else might be wrong with them?

    Nah, get out your puller and take those 2 rounds apart. You can reuse the brass and bullets at least.
     

    E.Shell

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2007
    10,244
    Mid-Merlind
    Can't speak to the QC issue of letting that stuff out of the factory, but if you're spittin' lead with backwards wadcutters, I'd wager your spittin' lead with forwards wadcutters too.
    upside down wad cutters were thought to be a SD load years ago
    No idea about the SD aspect, but I used them for a small game load for my .357 in the 70s. I loaded HBWCs backwards over a light load Red Dot in .38 cases for a Contender and an M-19. Even at extremely slow speeds, the hollow base would open up pretty good and the skirt would peel back. With more velocity, the skirt would peel off and roll up like a donut and stop, and the nose plug went a little further.

    ETA: We bought 8x57 surplus FMJ ammo and turned some of those around too. Expansion was fine, except the pointed "base" was funny looking, and accuracy was not much worse than original issue.
     

    dlharsh

    Active Member
    Feb 13, 2010
    103
    Windsor Mill
    :D
    If it's just two rounds out of 400, I wouldn't risk it. Just weigh the potential upsides versus the potential downsides. If they loaded the bullets in reverse ... what else might be wrong with them?

    Nah, get out your puller and take those 2 rounds apart. You can reuse the brass and bullets at least.

    Good advise. Why risk anything for a few pennies?
     

    j8064

    Garrett Co Hooligan #1
    Feb 23, 2008
    11,635
    Deep Creek
    I agree with most of what's been said. Personally I'd not shoot any of the rounds before checking out what's there. As a reloader I have the where-with-all to pull bullets, weigh charges, rebuild the rounds etc. Other folks may not.

    If that batch of rounds was mine, I'd pull the "backwards" bullets and see what's there. The bullets may even be DEWC's and simply "look" backwards. Who knows? Either way, rounds like that don't build my confidence in the supplier that built them.

    Then I'd develop a "control" by randomly pulling some bullets in the batch and checking both the charge weights and the overall component weights of some "assumed" to be correct and safe to fire cartridges:

    -> Total average weight of "safe/control" cartridge is determined by: Total weight of "primed case + powder charge + bullet" / number of cartridges tested and = "X".

    Then I'd weigh and compare the rest of the batch to the control weight. Any cartridge in the batch that has a significant variance from "X" should be set aside and not fired. I.E. potential squibs will be light and potential double charged rounds will be heavy. It's not a perfect solution and it's a PITA to do, but it works.

    The essence of this thread is one major reason I won't shoot someone else's reloads. And it's why I'm darn selective on who fires mine.
     

    j8064

    Garrett Co Hooligan #1
    Feb 23, 2008
    11,635
    Deep Creek
    LSWC, backwards LSWC (notice the lube groove with dark gray lube), and HBWC.

    As you first said it looks like a bullet seated backwards in your pic. And as I said, something like that doesn't give me "warm fuzzies" about trusting the entire batch or the supplier's QC.

    If you have the means to pull bullets and check the batch, then that's what I'd do. If not, I'd not shoot them and go to plan "B" ... (Whatever that turns out to be).

    Better to be very safe.
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,233
    Carroll County
    Plan B might be to pick up some cheap WWB at Wal Mart, save the brass, and get a Lee Turret Press and a set of dies.

    .38/.357 is ideal to learn reloading.
     
    Oct 27, 2008
    8,444
    Dundalk, Hon!
    I have a Lee Classic Turret, 4 die sets, auto safety primer, scale, everything I need to reload except powder, primers, and a place to set it all up. These cases will be part of my first .38 Special reloads once I have my very own man cave. That may not be for a couple of years, but I'll do what I can to make it happen.
     

    j8064

    Garrett Co Hooligan #1
    Feb 23, 2008
    11,635
    Deep Creek
    I have a Lee Classic Turret, 4 die sets, auto safety primer, scale, everything I need to reload except powder, primers, and a place to set it all up. These cases will be part of my first .38 Special reloads once I have my very own man cave. That may not be for a couple of years, but I'll do what I can to make it happen.

    GFY. :thumbsup: There's no sense in shooting a round that may be questionable. It's not worth the risk. Building .38 sp loads from components you trust and know what's in them is a better way to go.

    Take as much time as it takes to sort it out. Unfired rounds last a long, long time :)
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,564
    Harford County, Maryland
    Seated that shallow you can pull those bullets out with a pair of pliers. They could squib if there isn't enough resistance to bullet movement and travel to build pressure. I'd say they used loaders with auto bullet feeds and Lee factory crimp dies with the carbide ring to rule out the need to chamber test the loaded cases. Then they weighed out orders with a proportioning scale to eliminate counting. But the QC still wasn't there. Probably a green employee.

    Disect 'em, not worth the risk to shoot.
     

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