I'd actually really like to know, That happened two summers ago and I have only taken that one out a couple of times since. It seemed fine. Should I have it looked over?
ar-15 not cycling
- Thread starter davsco
- Start date
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I'd actually really like to know, That happened two summers ago and I have only taken that one out a couple of times since. It seemed fine. Should I have it looked over?
davsco
Ultimate Member
so hit the range today with a bunch of parts from other rifles. swapped them in and out. then i went back to what really seems to be the issue, not enough ooomph hitting the bcg. apparently my 'pin' method for locating the gas block over the barrel's gas port, as well as my 'eyeball' method, didn't give good results. i just moved the block out a little, in a little, right and left a little, and finally must have found the sweet spot as, with all my new build equipment, it cycled perfectly with three mags of ammo thru it!!!!!!
i had dropped in a timney 2 stage 'drop in' trigger group, and that was not resetting. i have a 45/90 degree ambi safety, set at the 45 position. i am going to switch that to 90 and see if that makes a diff. if not, i have a larue mbt i will drop in, at least for the time being.
thanks so much to all of you for all of your ideas and assistance, and to 3paul10 for inviting me over to go thru everything, and to chad for the gas block offer and of course expert advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is a lot of bs on this forum but it is way overwhelmed by all the help and assistance offered and given!
i had dropped in a timney 2 stage 'drop in' trigger group, and that was not resetting. i have a 45/90 degree ambi safety, set at the 45 position. i am going to switch that to 90 and see if that makes a diff. if not, i have a larue mbt i will drop in, at least for the time being.
thanks so much to all of you for all of your ideas and assistance, and to 3paul10 for inviting me over to go thru everything, and to chad for the gas block offer and of course expert advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is a lot of bs on this forum but it is way overwhelmed by all the help and assistance offered and given!
danb
dont be a dumbass
Glad you got it working buddy!
I had a similar issue on one of my first builds when I removed the block you could see from a little card on deposit left from the gas that the block was not aligned. Finding the dimple and wiggling it in of resolved the issue.
Like any endeavor time and experience bring about understanding. After I really started to understand I would strip down my earlier builds to all its components and rebuild them. Not only do you find methods to accomplish processes more easily but you grow to understand all the functioning mechanical systems.
This is why this forum is a invaluable resource and everyone is willing to help. Good luck on this and other builds you hopefully will pursue in the future.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Like any endeavor time and experience bring about understanding. After I really started to understand I would strip down my earlier builds to all its components and rebuild them. Not only do you find methods to accomplish processes more easily but you grow to understand all the functioning mechanical systems.
This is why this forum is a invaluable resource and everyone is willing to help. Good luck on this and other builds you hopefully will pursue in the future.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
omegared24
Ultimate Member
You should definitely have an expert look it over. A properly assembled rifle will still run with no gas rings. SOLGW did a video on staggered gas rings.
https://youtu.be/9PtzyXO9Tfw
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
Glad you got it working. I thought the gas block mas an issue.
It's a very common issue that many don't realize.
As far as the gas ring issue brought up, if the AR15 is using a one piece gas ring toss it and go back to regular rings.
Other reasons for short cycling can be an owner who cleaned the bolt tail too much, a carrier with an oversized bore, or the gas key could be oversized, loose, or leaking at the seal.
If the gas tube flared tip is worn on one side it can also leak gas.
It's a very common issue that many don't realize.
As far as the gas ring issue brought up, if the AR15 is using a one piece gas ring toss it and go back to regular rings.
Other reasons for short cycling can be an owner who cleaned the bolt tail too much, a carrier with an oversized bore, or the gas key could be oversized, loose, or leaking at the seal.
If the gas tube flared tip is worn on one side it can also leak gas.
Good tip, it is not my go-to AR, so I will be sure to have it looked at before I take it out again. Thanks to you and Clandestine for the help.
Part of me wonders if just the simple act of taking it apart and putting it back together fixed something because it definitely ran smoothly after. But for safety's sake, I'll get it checked out.
I hope I did not waste any of the OP's time with bad suggestions. It was not my intention.
omegared24
Ultimate Member
Who knows what happened but it certainly doesn't hurt to check it out.
Regardless...staggering those rings doesn't hurt anything so I wouldn't sweat the advice.
Regardless...staggering those rings doesn't hurt anything so I wouldn't sweat the advice.
GolfR
Ultimate Member
I realize this may be late to the game but I was out at AGC a few months ago and a guy was having the exact same issue. Spent a half hour or more trying to diagnose his issue and figured out that he never installed the gas tube pin.
davsco
Ultimate Member
so just another update. after it worked perfectly thru 3 mags, went to re-zero it at 50yds. it ejected but didn't load new rounds, crap!!! messed around with gas block position again, marked and dimpled the barrel, installed the block, loctited the screws. after everything locked down, fired some more rounds, and, perfect again. so this time with everything dimpled, loctited, etc, i am GTG. hit a match the next day, and it went back to being a bolt gun (not loading). f*** me. 3paul10 is nice/awesome enough to invite me up for him to take a look at it so that's what i'm doing midweek.
jimbobborg
Oddball caliber fan
Just a suggestion, but take the whole rifle to someone who can pin the block in place. It seems to me that the block is shifting around until it stops working.
davsco
Ultimate Member
update, yesterday went to 3paul10's place and he was super, super nice enough to spend a few hours with me going thoroughly thru the rifle. i actually hoped the gas block wasn't in the right place as that would be an easy fix, but with his borescope we saw that was indeed in the right place, so that wasn't the issue. two seemingly little things seemed to be causing the issues. while it wasn't loose, i hadn't super tightened (30 or 40 ft-lbs) or staked the stock/tube's castle nut (my thought was to not lock anything in so that i could remove, swap out, etc as needed while i was getting it working). and, to have the mag release button stick out more and thus be easier to 'find' and depress, i hadn't spun the bolt release thingie all the way in.
after the thorough going-thru and tightening and staking the castle nut, at the range it worked pretty good but not 100%. it was throwing shells a fair distance at 4:30 or so, so gas/ejection seemed pretty good. but after a couple of malfs here and there (not loading after ejecting or not locking back on empty mags), he noticed the mag release not fully threaded and after we fixed that it worked 100% with several different pmags.
so hopefully that's the end of that mess!
after the thorough going-thru and tightening and staking the castle nut, at the range it worked pretty good but not 100%. it was throwing shells a fair distance at 4:30 or so, so gas/ejection seemed pretty good. but after a couple of malfs here and there (not loading after ejecting or not locking back on empty mags), he noticed the mag release not fully threaded and after we fixed that it worked 100% with several different pmags.
so hopefully that's the end of that mess!
When you say mag release not fully threaded are you saying the mag catch was not turned into the release button enough cause it stopped at where he threads stopped so you did not k ow it needed to be turned in more ?
Is so, for my edification, what ends up going wrong/rubbing?
Thx
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is so, for my edification, what ends up going wrong/rubbing?
Thx
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
It's possible the Magazine Catch or Magazine Button wasn't threaded right. I have a Tap & Die to address issues with both in my Build Classes. I have to use them quite often.
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
Insufficient mag release tension will cause failures to feed. The bolt carrier can also unseat the magazine in some cases.
On first inspection at the bench, the buffer tube was loose enough to move the stock back and forth by hand, and I'm certain that was the cause of it least some of the issues the gun was having....we torqued and staked the castle nut and fixed that issue.
So when I inspected the lower, prior to shooting, I missed the mag release button was 4 turns short of being "screwed all the way in" (until the button head was flush with the screw)...so, when shooting, the carrier wasn't locking back after the last round (occasionally), my first thought was "bad mag"...unfortunately we were shooting the gun with multiple mags, that were not marked, so it got confusing as to a possible mag issue... then I remembered that an "incompletely screwed in" mag release button can cause issues, and turned the gun over and we saw it, so we fixed that and that solved the issue......
the gun would still infrequently not pick up a new round from the mag as the carrier went forward, it was very infrequent, and my thoughts are get a couple new mags to rule out mag issue. He is going to buy 2 new mags, set all the others aside, and run the gun and see if the issue it still present, if not, mag issue, if still present, plan B....It could be a mag release, maybe changing that out wouldn't be a bad thing.....
the gun passed all tests, buffer/action spring/carrier tests, head space, gages, borescope etc......so I thinking the mag?? I'm interested for a future range report my friend!
So when I inspected the lower, prior to shooting, I missed the mag release button was 4 turns short of being "screwed all the way in" (until the button head was flush with the screw)...so, when shooting, the carrier wasn't locking back after the last round (occasionally), my first thought was "bad mag"...unfortunately we were shooting the gun with multiple mags, that were not marked, so it got confusing as to a possible mag issue... then I remembered that an "incompletely screwed in" mag release button can cause issues, and turned the gun over and we saw it, so we fixed that and that solved the issue......
the gun would still infrequently not pick up a new round from the mag as the carrier went forward, it was very infrequent, and my thoughts are get a couple new mags to rule out mag issue. He is going to buy 2 new mags, set all the others aside, and run the gun and see if the issue it still present, if not, mag issue, if still present, plan B....It could be a mag release, maybe changing that out wouldn't be a bad thing.....
the gun passed all tests, buffer/action spring/carrier tests, head space, gages, borescope etc......so I thinking the mag?? I'm interested for a future range report my friend!
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
Excellent work 3paul10.
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