New AR lower to pistol and then to SBR ok?

tpe187 · Jun 22, 2019

Hello all,

I finally moved here a couple of weeks ago (Military). Working at APG and live in Harford County. I have a trust and several NFA items (SBRs/Suppressers). My question for the expereinced members of the group is can I buy a lower that has never been assembled into a rifle, to create a pistol and then eventually SBR it and not run afoul of the post OCT13 rule? What I would like to do is purchase a Knights Armament SR15 E3 IWS lower and create a pistol with the intent of eventually filing a form 1 on it. If that is not possible, I will reallocate one of my pre 13 lowers for the purpose. Thanks for the help.

rseymorejr · Jun 22, 2019

You should be fine with that. The only thing you can't do with a post 10/1/13 lower is build a non-HBAR rifle out of it.

tpe187 · Jun 22, 2019

So basically if you are creating an SBR from a lower that has never been made into a rifle, you are good to go or do you need something that shows it was made into a pistol at some point, such as registering pistols with the state?

rseymorejr · Jun 22, 2019

The only reason to make it into a pistol first is so you have the option of using that lower for a pistol later on, it gives you flexibility. There are some MD SBR rules like OAL must be >29"

outrider58 · Jun 22, 2019

tpe187 said:
So basically if you are creating an SBR from a lower that has never been made into a rifle, you are good to go or do you need something that shows it was made into a pistol at some point, such as registering pistols with the state?

Impossible to prove it started out as a pistol. Impossible for the state to prove it didn't, so don't worry about that. As long as the lower is transferred to you as "Other" and not "Rifle"(for simplicity's sake), you may legally build that lower into a pistol. You can later build that pistol into a rifle or SBR. You will still be able to revert that build back to a pistol as many times as you wish. You DO NOT have to "register" your pistol build with the state. Just build it and shoot it.

babalou · Jun 22, 2019

But from what I have read here, if the eventual end is to have it as an SBR, you build as a pistol so you can use it while the stamp is being processed for the SBR "mode" Use a pistol brace and then when the stamp comes back, put the stock on it to make an SBR.

babalou · Jun 22, 2019

HQL

outrider58 said:
Impossible to prove it started out as a pistol. Impossible for the state to prove it didn't, so don't worry about that. As long as the lower is transferred to you as "Other" and not "Rifle"(for simplicity's sake), you may legally build that lower into a pistol. You can later build that pistol into a rifle or SBR. You will still be able to revert that build back to a pistol as many times as you wish. You DO NOT have to "register" your pistol build with the state. Just build it and shoot it.

if you build it no HQL If you purchase a complete pistol, you need HQL....

tpe187 · Jun 22, 2019

Got it. Thanks for the quick responses

rbird7282 · Jun 22, 2019

tpe187 said:
So basically if you are creating an SBR from a lower that has never been made into a rifle, you are good to go or do you need something that shows it was made into a pistol at some point, such as registering pistols with the state?

No, a pistol has nothing to do with an SBR. Just file a FORM 1 to make an SBR with that lower.

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outrider58 · Jun 22, 2019

To clarify a little more, you can SBR an existing rifle. Hence the name, Short Barreled Rifle.

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Biggfoot44 · Jun 22, 2019

Indeed . an SBR can be created from a Rifle .

The advantage to Virgin Lower > Pistol > > SBR is so that while waiting for the Stamp , you may accumulate all the components , w/o any possibility of being in constructive possession of unregistered SBR . Or remove the stock, and travel Interstate with it as a Pistol w/o needing a Form 20 .

Major03 · Jun 24, 2019

Most people will transfer a new lower as an "other" and build it as a pistol while you wait for your stamp. You can enjoy it while you wait, and have more flexibility when it does become an SBR. There are other legal pathways, but if it's a new lower, building it as a pistol first has few down sides.

lazarus · Jul 7, 2019

Biggfoot44 said:
Indeed . an SBR can be created from a Rifle .

The advantage to Virgin Lower > Pistol > > SBR is so that while waiting for the Stamp , you may accumulate all the components , w/o any possibility of being in constructive possession of unregistered SBR . Or remove the stock, and travel Interstate with it as a Pistol w/o needing a Form 20 .

This.

Or it is for other states without OAL crap and you buy something like a Vz61 and need/want to use it as a pistol as you are waiting for your tax stamp so you can buy the folding stock.

If you want to go down the constructive possession rabbit hole, if ALL you have is that lower and you’ve got a 10.5” upper, a brace on the lower and a regular buffer tube and stock, that is constructive possession. You don’t own the parts to make a legal rifle and you don’t have a tax stamp yet. An unlikely situation that you wouldn’t already own a rifle AR-15 if you are building an SBR...but it is in theory possible.

IMHO, I’ve got other AR-15s, I could wait till my tax stamp comes back and I’ve got legal pistol lowers. Not worrying about constructive possession crap. I don’t see a circumstance where I’d want to confer my SBR to a pistol to travel interstate. Just grab one of my other AR-15s.

That said, converting to a pistol at least seem useful. Little reason not to make it in to a pistol, take a picture with a time stamp in case you ever want to throw the finger to ATF or police and then convert to an SBR once your tax stamp is in and never look back.

New AR lower to pistol and then to SBR ok?

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