Police stop and you are legally transporting a non-serial number firearm?

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  • Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,353
    SoMD / West PA
    If I'm stopped in Maryland for rolling a stop sign, and the officer asks if I have any guns in the car or a gun on me (nothing is in plain view) what must I tell him?

    That you have nothing illegal in the car.

    They will be able to see, or smell any contraband in the passenger compartment easily enough.
     

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,532
    "I don't consent to searches".. "You a law student or something"? LOL

    "OK, you a dog trainer too?"

    Hey Bill, bring Fritzschen over here to check this car. Yep he's alerting..

    "Go back to school, we're searching you and the car"..
     

    Trekker

    Active Member
    Oct 20, 2011
    687
    Harford County
    would a rifle bag in plain sight = gun in plain sight?

    Maybe probable cause for a search if you were asked about firearms and said no?:shrug:

    It might be taken as probable cause, but that would be based on the perception and reasoning of the LEO on site. I used to have a hard plastic rifle case in my car all the time. It was a cheap $20 and kept my recurve bow from getting banged up, since I would frequently stop by an archery range after work.

    If I was stopped I would say "No officer, I have a bow for archery practice in that case back there".
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    Question:
    People are saying "don't lie". Why? If a police officer asks you if you have guns in the car, you have a gun in the trunk that is not visible, and you say, "No sir".... where's the law that I'd be breaking there? What law says that you may not lie when asked a question by an officer? just curious.

    I personally just keep answers limited and go with the, "I do not consent to searches" answer, but I'm curious about the reason for the "don't lie" advice.
     

    songlaw

    Active Member
    Aug 2, 2017
    240
    Clarksville
    Another Point of View:

    I hadn't been pulled over for anything in about 15 years, until about a year ago, when I got a MD CCW permit. I was stopped in Fairfax, for allegedly making in improper lane change. I had just left court, so my weapon was in my glove compartment. The office asks for my license and registration, so I informed him that, although I am under no obligation to disclose this, I have a permit, and my registration is in the glovebox, along with my firearm. The officer asked if the vehicle was registered to me, and if so, leave the glovebox closed, and I will run a check. I did get a ticket, but got it dismissed later in court. The cop said I was going to write two citations, but appreciated that I disclosed the weapon disclosure, and just wrote one.



    About a month later, I was returning from a trip to AGC, and was pulled over for speeding, about 18 (or 23-can't remember) miles over the limit. I had my weapon on my right hip. I had an open jacket that concealed it, but it could have been visible, if I leaned over to open the glovebox to produce my registration. I politely told the Carroll County deputy that, although I am under no obligation to do so, I have my CCW, and the weapon on me.
    He was very courteous, and gave me a just a warning, stating that he appreciated that I told him about the weapon.

    The point is, the cops are not my enemy. They are people doing their jobs. They want to go home to their families, at the end of their shift. I know people have different opinions, but I think if you are polite, and take away the chance that they will get a glimpse of a weapon and get all surprised and jumpy, the disclosure might help you.

    The officers appreciated that I told them. They know that you've been screened pretty well, and that you are a stand-up citizen. I think if I did not disclose, I would have received a speeding ticket, instead of a warning.

    Just another point of view... Of course, this is based on a CCW permit holder's POV.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,365
    White Marsh
    Question:
    People are saying "don't lie". Why? If a police officer asks you if you have guns in the car, you have a gun in the trunk that is not visible, and you say, "No sir".... where's the law that I'd be breaking there? What law says that you may not lie when asked a question by an officer? just curious.

    I personally just keep answers limited and go with the, "I do not consent to searches" answer, but I'm curious about the reason for the "don't lie" advice.

    I'm not a lawyer.

    Lying to federal police (probably not within the scope of the OP's question, but worth mentioning) is a crime. From a few minutes of searching, it appears the Court of Special Appeals ruled in State v. Pagano that lying to LE isn't a crime provided it isn't in the course of a judicial proceeding, and the state's own obstruction of justice statute bears that out.

    Lying to police in a road side stop just seems like a very bad idea. If LE wants to search the vehicle, they will. Beating the charge doesn't equate to beating the ride, right? Whether or not the search is legal and myriad other factors are entirely different stories, and that gets played out on another day, at your own expense. I'd rather not fabricate an answer but instead exercise discretion and keep my mouth shut. Not answering a question isn't probable cause for anything aside from perhaps another question.

    In the course of an investigation, which fancily covers a traffic stop, I wouldn't want to be caught in a lie. Now I've lost the benefit of the doubt as well as weakened my credibility in a potential judicial proceeding further down the line.

    We're fully agreed on not consenting to searches, or giving them any reason to poke around further and find/manufacture a reason to search without my consent. I'm happy to be polite but I'm not volunteering information that could potentially be used against me, or give any reason for someone, road side or later, to doubt my claims.
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,154
    Because I suffer from BGOS when transporting everything guns, ammo, and accessories are in a case with a lock. It may be just a pistol rug and a dollar store lock or a ammo can with a piece of chain wrapped around and a cheap warded lock but they are "In a case that is locked" which sounds good in court. I also cover everything with tarps or Harbor freight shipping pads so nothing is visible either in the car or when you open the trunk. They need probable cause for a search and there is no reason to give that to them by them just looking in the window. I categorize this as cheap insurance just a little extra effort on my part.

    Moving Blanket
    https://www.harborfreight.com/40-in-x-72-in-moving-blanket-69504.html
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    Question:
    People are saying "don't lie". Why? If a police officer asks you if you have guns in the car, you have a gun in the trunk that is not visible, and you say, "No sir".... where's the law that I'd be breaking there? What law says that you may not lie when asked a question by an officer? just curious.

    I personally just keep answers limited and go with the, "I do not consent to searches" answer, but I'm curious about the reason for the "don't lie" advice.

    While most LEOs are Ok with gun owners there are others that are not. It sucks but you have to keep your guard up as if the guy is from the no private citizen needs a gun camp.
     

    eruby

    Confederate Jew
    MDS Supporter
    Because I suffer from BGOS when transporting everything guns, ammo, and accessories are in a case with a lock. It may be just a pistol rug and a dollar store lock or a ammo can with a piece of chain wrapped around and a cheap warded lock but they are "In a case that is locked" which sounds good in court. I also cover everything with tarps or Harbor freight shipping pads so nothing is visible either in the car or when you open the trunk. They need probable cause for a search and there is no reason to give that to them by them just looking in the window. I categorize this as cheap insurance just a little extra effort on my part.

    Moving Blanket
    https://www.harborfreight.com/40-in-x-72-in-moving-blanket-69504.html
    Winston Wolf approves of this blanket.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    Another Point of View:

    I hadn't been pulled over for anything in about 15 years, until about a year ago, when I got a MD CCW permit. I was stopped in Fairfax, for allegedly making in improper lane change. I had just left court, so my weapon was in my glove compartment. The office asks for my license and registration, so I informed him that, although I am under no obligation to disclose this, I have a permit, and my registration is in the glovebox, along with my firearm. The officer asked if the vehicle was registered to me, and if so, leave the glovebox closed, and I will run a check. I did get a ticket, but got it dismissed later in court. The cop said I was going to write two citations, but appreciated that I disclosed the weapon disclosure, and just wrote one.



    About a month later, I was returning from a trip to AGC, and was pulled over for speeding, about 18 (or 23-can't remember) miles over the limit. I had my weapon on my right hip. I had an open jacket that concealed it, but it could have been visible, if I leaned over to open the glovebox to produce my registration. I politely told the Carroll County deputy that, although I am under no obligation to do so, I have my CCW, and the weapon on me.
    He was very courteous, and gave me a just a warning, stating that he appreciated that I told him about the weapon.

    The point is, the cops are not my enemy. They are people doing their jobs. They want to go home to their families, at the end of their shift. I know people have different opinions, but I think if you are polite, and take away the chance that they will get a glimpse of a weapon and get all surprised and jumpy, the disclosure might help you.

    The officers appreciated that I told them. They know that you've been screened pretty well, and that you are a stand-up citizen. I think if I did not disclose, I would have received a speeding ticket, instead of a warning.

    Just another point of view... Of course, this is based on a CCW permit holder's POV.

    Slightly different since you are CCW. Failure to disclose and you open the glove box and there is gun could lead to a very eventful stop, same with wearing though you think its concealed and you lean over and it prints another very lengthy unpleasant stop. But a gun in a case in the backseat or in the trunk poses zero threat and no need to disclose out of fear the cop will ramp it up. You are free to handle it the way suits you. But for some reason when I get stopped I always see to have to express my dissent to having my vehicle searched. I have been asked if I am a drug runner, arms dealer, kidnapper, etc
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,353
    SoMD / West PA
    Question:
    People are saying "don't lie". Why? If a police officer asks you if you have guns in the car, you have a gun in the trunk that is not visible, and you say, "No sir".... where's the law that I'd be breaking there? What law says that you may not lie when asked a question by an officer? just curious.

    I personally just keep answers limited and go with the, "I do not consent to searches" answer, but I'm curious about the reason for the "don't lie" advice.

    Lying is illegal. You lie, then expect a slew of charges coming your way.

    "However," you are not required to answer their question directly either.

    When you say that "you have nothing illegal in the vehicle." That shuts down probable cause for a search, because you are not doing anything wrong.

    If there is some type of over-riding factor, like large amounts of blood over the car seats, hand grenades in the passenger seat, the smell of marijuana/alcohol emanating from your vehicle, then you are under the magnifying glass, so mind your P's and Q's.
     

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