Why gun rallies are pointless

IronEye · Apr 7, 2018

I do what I can to make sure that a photo of a 2A rally is not posted on-line or on the news showing only 10 people in attendance. Hopefully the 2A rally next Saturday will be well attended.

I am quite sure that if the 1st Amendment rally in February had just a handful of protesters instead of the 350-400 that did come down the politicians would have taken notice - and not in a good way. More Patriots than you have Handcuffs would have been an easily ignored boast. That crowd made a BIG difference.

BeoBill · Apr 7, 2018

Aventus said:
...Kit Perez isn’t just some blogger. Many would argue that Kit has earned her bona fides in the counterintelligence and libertarian community and is a solid voice against a tyrannical government. If you haven’t read her book, “Basics of Resistance”, it’s a decent read for many in this group.

I personally don't know Kit Perez from a pile of rocks, but I'll give anyone credible a listen. Just remember, a number of the people here came of age during the 1960s and experienced the "rallies" firsthand. Lessons were learned then and subsequently. Also be aware that there are folks here that have also done that for a living, as well as other related OPS.

EDIT:

Kit Perez on LinkedIn:

I work on criminal felony cases, civil cases, pre-employment vetting, and any other situation where truth can be hard to find. I have over five years’ experience in Statement Analysis…

Lightweight, IMHO.

Aventus said:
If we slap down people in our own camp for exercising their 1A because we don’t agree how to secure the 2A, then that’s hypocrisy. I always found hypocrisy to chase away the best people which are always needed to reach our goals.

I take it you think that disagreement is hypocrisy? Look in the mirror before you start casting unwarranted aspersions, son.

Aventus said:
I tip my hat to anyone willing to put their butt on the line for these 2A events. You’re the ones getting screamed at, arrested, standing in the cold and rain and worse. Anyone willing to do that demands respect from all those benefiting from their struggles.

But not from the OP, I surmise.

Aventus said:
With that said, I agree with TexDefender, “this is just another tool in the tool box”. The writing is on the wall and the tidal wave is coming. A handful of Socialists/Globalists and outside governments are pouring hundreds of millions (if not billions) of dollars into the 2A fight. Ask yourself, why are they doing that? Then ask if a rally or threatening politicians to vote them out of office is going to overcome this 2A attack???? If you believe that, I got a bridge to sell you.

Great, you're right. So your answer is what?

Aventus said:
If we don’t come up with a better approach, the 2A will continue to be chipped away. If Hillary was in office instead of Trump, gun confiscation plans would already be in place throughout America. If Trump loses in 2 years or Pence in 6, we will be facing 2A threats like never seen before. Which means we don’t have the time to spare to keep doing the same old, same old and continue to lose ground.

None of us may have the answers as individuals (I don't) but as a group, we might find the right formula. If this isn’t going to be discussed here, on this forum, then where??? If there is a better place for this discussion, then someone please point me in that direction because that’s where I want to contribute and learn. I don’t believe there is a better place however. I look forward to meeting many folks here at the pig roast! Peace

See above reply. Contribute something positive and concrete please. And please don't try to speak for everyone here. There are things happening about which you know nothing. As I'm fond of saying, "Observe and learn."

BeoBill · Apr 7, 2018

IronEye said:
I do what I can to make sure that a photo of a 2A rally is not posted on-line or on the news showing only 10 people in attendance. Hopefully the 2A rally next Saturday will be well attended.

I am quite sure that if the 1st Amendment rally in February had just a handful of protesters instead of the 350-400 that did come down the politicians would have taken notice - and not in a good way. More Patriots than you have Handcuffs would have been an easily ignored boast. That crowd made a BIG difference.

As you pointed out, everyone needs to do their part, no matter how big or small. Every action is important. Thank you for your work. :thumbsup:

buellsfurn · Apr 7, 2018

So hear we go again nay sayer's tall guy 88 started a thread a few weeks ago trying to do something in starting a pro gun march and was looking for help in getting it off the ground three or four post into it another anti nay sayer types in trying to squash his or her efforts and now this thread attempting to do the same . You nah sayer's have bigger brighter and better ideas get one of them started prove it. I have nothing negative to say to anyone trying to do something. But you people telling the ones that are trying they are doing it wrong prove it.The man from North Carolina did more in one night at a town hall meeting then most of you have done all year. Do you get the difference his actions where positive

Cyndi59 · Apr 8, 2018

trailman said:
Interesting take that may suggest a different approach. Food for thought.

http://www.patrickhenrysociety.com/why-gun-rallies-pointless/

Why Gun Rallies Are Pointless

It’s spring, and that means it’s time for rally season. That’s when all the gun rallies get going for the year. In any given state, you can bet there will be at least two rallies at the state capitol, maybe another one in the (next) largest town, and maybe one more event before winter.

They’re almost all the same; they have the same formula, the same stuff, the same attendees. The same speakers stand at the podium and say the same things–lofty things about rights and Founders, and defiant things about all the ways that the tyrannical law du jour will be defied. What changes? Nothing.

Before you attempt to burn me at the stake, let me show you. Here’s an invite from an upcoming rally in a flyover state. I’ll take it section by section.

Each year in the spring, Second Amendment advocates gather in the State Capitol Rotunda to “rally” the gun-rights grassroots base and lobby the legislature on gun-rights issues and pending legislation. Rally Day also offers an excellent opportunity for gun owners and pro-gun legislators to get better acquainted and forge stronger alliances.

What does the word “rally” mean?
•To call together for a common purpose; assemble.
•To reassemble and restore to order.
•To rouse or revive from inactivity or decline.

So what do we know from the above paragraph?

•This rally happens every spring. That means it is expected, it is routine. That is the kiss of death. Ineffective, boring, pointless.
•Every time they have this rally, they do the same thing. In fact, this event is so routine, it’s even called Rally Day.
•They claim that it’s an “excellent opportunity for gun owners and pro-gun legislators to get better acquainted and forge stronger alliances.” That’s PR-speak for schmooze.

Here’s the question of the day: why do the gun owners not already know the pro-gun legislators? Do you, as a gun owner, need to be friends with your legislator? Do you need to share a meal with them and chitchat about gun-grabbers?

I say no, you don’t. I would argue that you need to get across to them that if they do not vote correctly, they will be removed. You need to make them understand that if they do not do their job, you will ensure they don’t get another chance in that chair.

Rally folks might counter with, “well, that’s how you get the point across, you gotta make connections and network, and show the legislators that you mean business.” My next question is, how well has that worked out for you? I mean, considering you need to have the same event every single year and all.

The answer to my question is found in the very next paragraph.

Recent Rally Days have seen pretty dismal attendance. Given the current political climate relative to gun laws, it is absolutely critical that we have a strong turnout this year. We must fill the rotunda like we did when we were fighting for Concealed Cary and the Castle Doctrine. We are under attack and can no longer afford to be complacent!

Well, that’s awkward. Not only does no one show up to the Annual Gun Owner Feel-Good Picnic, but someone can’t spell concealed carry.

They’re right about one thing–gun owners are under attack and “can no longer afford to be complacent.” At least they admit that they have been. The problem is what their idea of “non-complacency” looks like.

Recent anti-gun marches and protests have drawn large crowds urging lawmakers to pass legislation restricting your Second Amendment rights. We must have a large turnout to counter those efforts to strip us of the hard-fought gains we have made in recent years. The anti-gun folks are well organized and well-funded. We must counteract their efforts by the grassroots action of individual gun owners.

This literally translates to “If we get bigger crowds at rallies, we will beat the anti-gunners.” Read it carefully; that’s what they’re saying. “The anti-gunners have more money and better organization so we need you to show up to our rally and donate more money.”

If you can (take a day of vacation if necessary – it’s that important!), please join us. You could even take your kids out of school for the day and let them have a great firsthand civics lesson they will never get in school. Bring your shooting buddy who wouldn’t ordinarily come out for such an event. Bottom line, we must all dig deep and give of our time to show up and stand up for our Second Amendment rights!

I have a better idea. Instead of going to yet another rally to tell your legislators that you Really Mean It This Time And You Want To Keep Your Gun Rights, just like you did last year, and the year before, do something different. Do something unexpected.

Spend that Saturday milling out an 80% lower. Reading a book on a topic you need to learn. Spend the gas money on parts for your lower. Spend the money you were going to use on a new rally t-shirt and go get more ammo. Go get Basics of Resistance and pick any of the ideas from the several lists the book has.

Do something…anything…besides the same things you’ve been doing. Because what the rally crowd is doing isn’t working anymore.

**************************************
Why every gun owner..NRA,non-NRA,every gun owners association should set up one major day and protest "The Second Amendment Army",when our rights are being chewed away by anti-liberals and the brainwashed youth of today..I just exercised my 2nd again after being at the "March for Our Lives" and bought a .22 cal Uzi https://youtu.be/aFOBz6OwUlQ ,but if they can form a bunch idiots to take our rights and what we can own..it's another story..show those who we elected we are stronger..just was amazing these anti-Hoggtu*ds were a brainless without a clue lot..

clingy · Apr 9, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
Below, a couple of pictures to illustrate the value of trusting the person on either side of you.

The first pic: our folks can concentrate on dialogue while our Maryland Militia overwatch in underway at last month’s Anti-Gun March For Our Lives.

The second pic: the New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey militias “ring-fence” me (wearing the orange security vest) while I challenge ANTIFA protesters who have invaded our Mother Of All Rallies last summer with a bullhorn—a violation of our Mall Permit.

I think the optics of using the militia as security dilutes your message. A couple thoughts:

1. It feeds the left’s “scared white guy” narrative of gun owners.

2. Being tac’d out immediately alienates you from others. Save that for when SHTF, not a protest.

3. Most of that tactical gear isn’t even geographically appropriate (e.g. multicam and coyote brown might look cool but are awful for Maryland) and so make them look like LARPers, being taken less seriously.

Stoveman · Apr 9, 2018

clingy said:
I think the optics of using the militia as security dilutes your message. A couple thoughts:

1. It feeds the left’s “scared white guy” narrative of gun owners.

2. Being tac’d out immediately alienates you from others. Save that for when SHTF, not a protest.

3. Most of that tactical gear isn’t even geographically appropriate (e.g. multicam and coyote brown might look cool but are awful for Maryland) and so make them look like LARPers, being taken less seriously.

So it sounds like you are throwing your hat in the ring for the next planning session, good it will be nice to have a another participant.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

clingy · Apr 9, 2018

Stoveman said:
So it sounds like you are throwing your hat in the ring for the next planning session, good it will be nice to have a another participant.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I asked a while back how to join/follow Patriot Picket without Facebook. Never got a response.

I do want to get more active, but my life situation at the moment does not really permit that. Without revealing too much on a public board to dox myself, I could explain why in private.

Stoveman · Apr 9, 2018

clingy said:
I asked a while back how to join/follow Patriot Picket without Facebook. Never got a response.

I do want to get more active, but my life situation at the moment does not really permit that. Without revealing too much on a public board to dox myself, I could explain why in private.

Considering the fact that there are multiple threads running RIGHT NOW on PP activities this is a poor excuse. Does someone have to hold your hand?

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clingy · Apr 9, 2018

Stoveman said:
Considering the fact that there are multiple threads running RIGHT NOW on PP activities this is a poor excuse. Does someone have to hold your hand?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Forget it. I’ll pass. Not very welcoming.

GTOGUNNER · Apr 9, 2018

Patriot Picket isn't organized to get people to join the flock. It exists as individuals. Dressing how you want, use whatever bathroom you want, PP doesn't care. Joining is not by invitation. It is like minded people expressing 1st amendment rights to protect something they truly believe. Make your own sign it's all good. Some folks only come out once, others cone out most of the time. The Patriot Picket has even had passer byes stop and hold signs. Non locals send gifts for supplies or buy Patriot Picketers a beer after a day on the bricks. MDSHOOTERS is a pro gun group. PP supports the 2A using 1A. One thing in business is you don't disrespect the store brand.

Sent from the 3rd Rock

Biggfoot44 · Apr 9, 2018

I don't do facetwit at all , keep up with developements right here on MDS .

Or skip PP , and do somthing else that involves stepping away from computer, and interacting with live humans. But do somthing meaningful .

Raina · Apr 9, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
Get-togethers....ANY get-togethers...provide the best chances for people to make personal connections for continued activism.

The sense of community and personal connection amongst the PP and MDS folks who show up in person to support PP has been clearly evident to me each time I have attended. I believe community is more powerful for the long-term marathon activism efforts than any one-day march. Rally has a "together" component to it that a march does not have, I think.

I will see y'all this Saturday the 14th.

Muleskinner · Apr 9, 2018

One read of the gun grabbers guide that I posted last week shows that not only are rallies pointless, so is using empirical data (facts)..

militant Anti gunners are never going to change their stance..

Of course there are loads of pro 2A people who will continue to bang their heads into that brick wall...

danb · Apr 9, 2018

Muleskinner said:
One read of the gun grabbers guide that I posted last week shows that not only are rallies pointless, so is using empirical data (facts)..

militant Anti gunners are never going to change their stance..

Of course there are loads of pro 2A people who will continue to bang their heads into that brick wall...

True, but militant ideological anti-gunners are 15-20% of voters. To be fair, converted 2A "absolutists" are about 15-20% of voters.

The middle 60% are squishy and persuadable with empirical data.

Aventus · Apr 9, 2018

GTOGUNNER said:
Patriot Picket isn't organized to get people to join the flock. It exists as individuals. Dressing how you want, use whatever bathroom you want, PP doesn't care. Joining is not by invitation. It is like minded people expressing 1st amendment rights to protect something they truly believe. Make your own sign it's all good. Some folks only come out once, others cone out most of the time. The Patriot Picket has even had passer byes stop and hold signs. Non locals send gifts for supplies or buy Patriot Picketers a beer after a day on the bricks. MDSHOOTERS is a pro gun group. PP supports the 2A using 1A. One thing in business is you don't disrespect the store brand.

Sent from the 3rd Rock

Just a RANT to MDS folks because I'm spending my lunch time here again when I should be more productive. This place is more addictive than crack.

Questions GTO, what is the goal of Patriot Picket? What is the "store brand" you are referring to?

trailman · Apr 10, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
Below, a couple of pictures to illustrate the value of trusting the person on either side of you.

The first pic: our folks can concentrate on dialogue while our Maryland Militia overwatch in underway at last month’s Anti-Gun March For Our Lives.

The second pic: the New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey militias “ring-fence” me (wearing the orange security vest) while I challenge ANTIFA protesters who have invaded our Mother Of All Rallies last summer with a bullhorn—a violation of our Mall Permit.

Maryland has a "Moolisha"? Do you have colonels and stuff?

trailman · Apr 10, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
Below, a couple of pictures to illustrate the value of trusting the person on either side of you.

The first pic: our folks can concentrate on dialogue while our Maryland Militia overwatch in underway at last month’s Anti-Gun March For Our Lives.

The second pic: the New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey militias “ring-fence” me (wearing the orange security vest) while I challenge ANTIFA protesters who have invaded our Mother Of All Rallies last summer with a bullhorn—a violation of our Mall Permit.

I wrote on this a while back, last year I think, do you have any idea just how BAD the optics are on this? Anti 2A groups pitch you guys as armed revolutionaries and Jesus Christ you’re showing up in kit.

Want a better way of doing things? How about this. MANDATORY banning of all camo, slogan shirts, cold dead hands ball caps and hats at ANY rally.

Dress standard, shirt (ironed), a tie, get a clip on if you have to. Shave, ditch the ZZ top beard or stay home. Non-descriptive everyday business/casual jacket.

You dress like a normal person that you are supposed to be and what 80% of the general public, you know the "people you are trying to convince to some to your side" THINK is a normal person. They see the Anti’s dancing around with pink ***** hats on what do you think they think of your airsoft gear?

ID each other; so everyone can wear a "blank" blaze orange ball cap. It stands out in pictures to show numbers, hell carry and extra just to wave around, it makes the press pictures look better, more people. Get better sloganeering, ditch the don’t tread on me shit and go with something like “I’m responsible for my own life, let me be”. At least that would open up a dialog with a semi-intelligent reporter for a meaningful dialog and not visual window dressing on a news article.

Arm everyone with one of these, they are cheap and the bomb. Have several people with them to film the anti’s getting in your face. ANTIFA films EVERYTHING for use as propaganda.

https://www.amazon.com/Crosstour-Underwater-Waterproof-170°Wide-angle-Rechargeable/dp/B074319MZZ

Find someone willing to take the hits. Yeah you heard me someone volunteers to get beat up, it’s easy to incite a nutcase to go over the edge, let them take some hits, get it on tape and get them out WITHOUT retaliation. Look!! Film at 11, crazy anti-gun demonstrator beats up nice looking gentleman Joe the plumber out trying to speak about his freedoms. BTW wear a cup.

Options. Do something different, even leaving the state is an action. I’ve been here since 1990 and oh those rally’s have done so much. Yes we have lost less each year tell me what has been gained.

Lastly want to ding Kit, you don’t know WTF you’re talking about then as she runs in a rare crowd.

Fire away, you’ve been doing well so far.

trailman · Apr 10, 2018

Aventus said:
Just a RANT to MDS folks because I'm spending my lunch time here again when I should be more productive. This place is more addictive than crack.

Questions GTO, what is the goal of Patriot Picket? What is the "store brand" you are referring to?

http://www.patriotpickle.com/

Whoops sorry

https://patriotpicket.org/

Hey mom look at the webpage with all the crazy people with assault rifles.

TexDefender · Apr 10, 2018

Muleskinner said:
One read of the gun grabbers guide that I posted last week shows that not only are rallies pointless, so is using empirical data (facts)..

militant Anti gunners are never going to change their stance..

Of course there are loads of pro 2A people who will continue to bang their heads into that brick wall...

Mule, it's not about convincing the militant Anti-gunners. It's about getting those in the middle to come down on our side. It is about making, educating and leveraging the "New" shooter. Much of today's youth have no idea how to camp, hunt, fish, or defend oneself. Why do you think the left attacked JROTC, the NRA, Hunting, and the Military when they get a chance. I think because it is people like us that can and have convinced many of todays youth to be responsible for one's own actions, to appreciate the outdoors, to respect and hold the constitution in high regards. To the militant left facts, logic, and common sense don't serve their purpose. Emotion is their key to pull people to their side and to hound people to the point they throw their hands up and quit.

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