Washington State Pro Gun Civil Disobedience

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  • Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,691
    It's hollow honestly.

    Protesters knew in advance that neither the city police nor the state police would charge anyone.

    I'd be curious to see how many of them would have shown up knowing they would have been arrested and become felons for life.

    The point is, if enough of anyone shows up, it becomes impossible to arrest everyone. Couple that with extensive media coverage, both network-level and individual, and the oppressors have to back down, or create a bloodbath.

    Given that the sort of person who is likely to stand up in this sort of protest is not going to be anything like the "Occupy" crowd, it would be the police who would have to initiate violence against the protestors. However they might feel about it, no sane politician would permit that to happen . . . yet. The tide is turning our way across the nation.

    A lot of New Yorkers have become voluntary felons. "Guns - what guns?". Once enough people indicate they will not follow unconstitutional laws, attempting to enforce them becomes a farce. The risk of The People re-discovering that they have the power to influence events and overturn absurd legislation threatens to undermine the control legislators like to believe they have. This cannot be allowed.

    The situation will come down to either throwing us a bone - "let the poor bitter Bible-thumpers have their damn guns", or cracking down on an armed and seriously PO'd populace, or frantically passing a bunch of junk legislation that everyone will ignore, thus totally undermining their authority, and worse, getting them tossed out of office. Of the options, the first is least painful for everyone involved.
     

    kcbrown

    Super Genius
    Jun 16, 2012
    1,393
    The point is, if enough of anyone shows up, it becomes impossible to arrest everyone. Couple that with extensive media coverage, both network-level and individual, and the oppressors have to back down, or create a bloodbath.

    Given that the sort of person who is likely to stand up in this sort of protest is not going to be anything like the "Occupy" crowd, it would be the police who would have to initiate violence against the protestors. However they might feel about it, no sane politician would permit that to happen . . . yet. The tide is turning our way across the nation.

    A lot of New Yorkers have become voluntary felons. "Guns - what guns?". Once enough people indicate they will not follow unconstitutional laws, attempting to enforce them becomes a farce. The risk of The People re-discovering that they have the power to influence events and overturn absurd legislation threatens to undermine the control legislators like to believe they have. This cannot be allowed.

    The situation will come down to either throwing us a bone - "let the poor bitter Bible-thumpers have their damn guns", or cracking down on an armed and seriously PO'd populace, or frantically passing a bunch of junk legislation that everyone will ignore, thus totally undermining their authority, and worse, getting them tossed out of office. Of the options, the first is least painful for everyone involved.

    How stupid do you think the police and other members of the opposition are?

    They won't try to arrest the civilly-disobedient protesters while they're protesting. They'll do things like take photos, compare against things like the photos in the drivers license database, plant fake participants to gather intel, and covertly follow the more vocal protesters if necessary. And then arrest the protesters they can identify long after the fact when they think they're safe at home. They'll enlist the help of the oh-so-willing federal government for the identification efforts if necessary.

    If they have sufficient manpower, they'll surround the protesters, keep them herded, and arrest people on the spot. They'll use tactics to break up the protest at whatever point they think they've done what they can, and then arrest the smaller groups of people that form as they scatter.

    And they'll keep doing that at each protest, so the protest size will naturally dwindle due to a combination of attrition (people who are serving time cannot participate in protests) or fear of arrest. Eventually the size of the protests will be so small as to be negligible, and anyone stupid enough to protest under those conditions will be arrested on the spot. And that'll be that.


    But give in to such protests? Please. To them, that would be like giving in to terrorist demands, a direct violation of their "sovereign power". No, whatever they do, giving in is not going to be in the cards unless they're a lot dumber than I assume they are (I never assume idiocy on the part of the enemy).

    As for media "coverage", the media is driving the anti-RKBA side. They will not give substantial coverage to any such event. They certainly didn't to this event, at least that I can find via a Google News search.

    You guys who are living in the minority civil rights era need to wake up and smell the coffee. The government has learned that it doesn't have to care, period. The opposition is daring us to start a civil war over this. You don't give up prematurely when you're daring the opposition to take up arms against you.
     

    pcfixer

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2009
    5,948
    Marylandstan
    How stupid do you think the police and other members of the opposition are?

    They won't try to arrest the protesters while they're protesting. They'll do things like take photos, compare against things like the photos in the drivers license database, plant fake participants to gather intel, and covertly follow the more vocal protesters if necessary. And then arrest the protesters they can identify long after the fact when they think they're safe at home. They'll enlist the help of the oh-so-willing federal government for that if necessary.

    If they have sufficient manpower, they'll surround the protesters, keep them herded, and arrest people on the spot. They'll use tactics to break up the protest at whatever point they think they've done what they can, and then arrest the smaller groups of people that form as they scatter.

    And they'll keep doing that at each protest, so the protest size will naturally dwindle due to a combination of attrition (people who are serving time cannot participate in protests) or fear of arrest.


    But give in to such protests? Please. To them, that would be like giving in to terrorist demands, a direct violation of their "sovereign power". No, whatever they do, giving in is not going to be in the cards unless they're a lot dumber than I assume they are (I never assume idiocy on the part of the enemy).

    As for media "coverage", the media is driving the anti-RKBA side. They will not give substantial coverage to any such event. They certainly didn't to this event, at least that I can find via a Google News search.

    You guys who are living in the minority civil rights era need to wake up and smell the coffee. The government has learned that it doesn't have to care, period. The opposition is daring us to start a civil war over this. You don't give up prematurely when you're daring the opposition to take up arms against you.

    You're correct, BUT most of conservative RKBA people still don't get it.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    It's hollow honestly.

    Protesters knew in advance that neither the city police nor the state police would charge anyone.

    I'd be curious to see how many of them would have shown up knowing they would have been arrested and become felons for life.

    over 1,000 upset voters with guns showing up at the state capital matters. Legislators must surely have the thought that "this time" those protesters are peaceful. It does give them something to think about though in how far they want to push things.
     

    kcbrown

    Super Genius
    Jun 16, 2012
    1,393
    over 1,000 upset voters with guns showing up at the state capital matters. Legislators must surely have the thought that "this time" those protesters are peaceful. It does give them something to think about though in how far they want to push things.

    "Matters" so much that which mainstream media outlets gave it real coverage, again?

    Time to bust out the game theory again. The deal is this:

    Either:


    1. the protesters will remain peaceful, in which case the legislators don't have to care, because the media will just ignore it and it's the media that primarily drives elections (seeing how it's the primary source of "information" people use for that), or
    2. the protesters will turn violent, in which case the media and most other people will side against them for being violent (and will insist that such proves that they're right in their gun control attempts, since you clearly don't want such violent people to have guns, do you?) and, again, the legislators then don't have to care (or, rather, they do, but now it's in exactly the opposite direction of what we want).


    So....which of those options is the one where the legislators have to change their behavior? I keep looking and not seeing it.
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,735
    over 1,000 upset voters with guns showing up at the state capital matters. Legislators must surely have the thought that "this time" those protesters are peaceful. It does give them something to think about though in how far they want to push things.

    Sounds like great ammo to ram an expansion of SB281 through the GA and override Hogan's veto.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,691
    How stupid do you think the police and other members of the opposition are?

    I think they're smart enough to see what an anti-2A position can do in an election. Of course, location matters.

    They won't try to arrest the civilly-disobedient protesters while they're protesting. They'll do things like take photos, compare against things like the photos in the drivers license database, plant fake participants to gather intel, and covertly follow the more vocal protesters if necessary. And then arrest the protesters they can identify long after the fact when they think they're safe at home. They'll enlist the help of the oh-so-willing federal government for the identification efforts if necessary.

    They've been doing this since the 1950s. How effective has it been against Communists in Hollywood, Civil Rights and antiwar protestors?

    If they have sufficient manpower, they'll surround the protesters, keep them herded, and arrest people on the spot. They'll use tactics to break up the protest at whatever point they think they've done what they can, and then arrest the smaller groups of people that form as they scatter.

    DC Stadium was filled with busloads of people arrested off the streets. A few years later, all those arrested were compensated by the government.

    And they'll keep doing that at each protest, so the protest size will naturally dwindle due to a combination of attrition (people who are serving time cannot participate in protests) or fear of arrest. Eventually the size of the protests will be so small as to be negligible, and anyone stupid enough to protest under those conditions will be arrested on the spot. And that'll be that.

    Cluck, cluck.


    But give in to such protests? Please. To them, that would be like giving in to terrorist demands, a direct violation of their "sovereign power". No, whatever they do, giving in is not going to be in the cards unless they're a lot dumber than I assume they are (I never assume idiocy on the part of the enemy).

    Want to see "The Interview"? Want to gas the opposition in Syria?

    As for media "coverage", the media is driving the anti-RKBA side. They will not give substantial coverage to any such event. They certainly didn't to this event, at least that I can find via a Google News search.

    The internet has its own way of passing on information. So far, the Feds have not shut down social media in this country. If they do, it will wake up a lot of sleepy but potentially useful idiots.

    You guys who are living in the minority civil rights era need to wake up and smell the coffee. The government has learned that it doesn't have to care, period. The opposition is daring us to start a civil war over this. You don't give up prematurely when you're daring the opposition to take up arms against you.

    The opposition is in retreat in most states. No one is "daring" anyone to start a revolution. Change your underwear and cut down on the coffee intake. Try not to dishearten those who hope and work for change. That's the sort of thing that the other side wants to happen, and they will dispatch their agents to do so, here and elsewhere.

    .
     

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