Squib - and how to deal with it.

halltrail · Apr 13, 2017

stuck

I just started reloading. I took my first batch to the range and 4 shots in..I hard alerts on 4 senses: Bang sound was different, recoil felt different, no new hole in the target, and case didn't eject. Ok maybe 3 senses and my brain. I kept the gun pointed down range for a few, pulled the slide back and ejected the case...took gun apart and checked the barrel. Yep, there was the bullet. I just packed up and went home feeling a little bummed about my first reloading experience lol. But was glad I was paying attention to what I was doing. I thought maybe my powder charge was too light.

Got home and used a wooden dowel and gun oil to get the bullet out. Turned out, I may have just not had enough powder in that one round (aka -mistake). The rest of the rounds made with same powder recipe fired fine. Ive made and shot about 300 rounds since with out issue. I do carry the wooden dowel and oil with me to the range now. :-)

Specs/recipe I was using:

Glock 21 .45 ACP
5.9 grains of Win 231
Hornady 200 grain JHP
Brass: New Winchester
Primer: Winchester large-Pistol.
OAL: 1.230 (If I remember correctly)
Crimp: .470

Minuteman · Apr 13, 2017

halltrail said:
I just started reloading. I took my first batch to the range and 4 shots in..I hard alerts on 4 senses: Bang sound was different, recoil felt different, no new hole in the target, and case didn't eject. Ok maybe 3 senses and my brain. I kept the gun pointed down range for a few, pulled the slide back and ejected the case...took gun apart and checked the barrel. Yep, there was the bullet. I just packed up and went home feeling a little bummed about my first reloading experience lol. But was glad I was paying attention to what I was doing. I thought maybe my powder charge was too light.

Got home and used a wooden dowel and gun oil to get the bullet out. Turned out, I may have just not had enough powder in that one round (aka -mistake). The rest of the rounds made with same powder recipe fired fine. Ive made and shot about 300 rounds since with out issue. I do carry the wooden dowel and oil with me to the range now. :-)

Specs/recipe I was using:

Glock 21 .45 ACP
5.9 grains of Win 231
Hornady 200 grain JHP
Brass: New Winchester
Primer: Winchester large-Pistol.
OAL: 1.230 (If I remember correctly)
Crimp: .470

Thanks for that personal story, and good luck reloading!

I've seen a few people recommend carrying a wooden dowel and a mallet. Some say to carry a solid steel rod, not a cleaning rod, so you can tap out seriously stuck bullets. I've never had to do either.

In the military, we would often run a cleaning rod down the barrel to make sure there was no obstruction in the barrel. Probably overkill, but very thorough.

tallen702 · Apr 13, 2017

Minuteman said:
As far as the possibility of 'cooking off' a cartridge, called a 'hang fire' if it fires; this happening is even more rare than a squib. I forget the recommended time the NRA recommends, but generally a few seconds up to maybe 30 seconds is probably sufficient. I had a .22LR cartridge not fire in a revolver Saturday. Actually it was someone else shooting my gun. We waited a few seconds, then tried unsuccessfully to restrike it a couple more times. Usually they'll fire on a restrike if you rotate the shell slightly.

Another friend said when he was in artillery, they had a cook off after a failure to fire, about a minute and half later! Wowzers!!

2003 at the Kanawha State Forest range in WV. Paki surplus .303 in an Enfield jungle carbine. 45 seconds from click to bang on the first round out of the can. There were a ton of hangfires in that batch. Anywhere from flintlock-like half second delays to 10-15 second delays. Made for an interesting day.

Minuteman · Apr 13, 2017

tallen702 said:
2003 at the Kanawha State Forest range in WV. Paki surplus .303 in an Enfield jungle carbine. 45 seconds from click to bang on the first round out of the can. There were a ton of hangfires in that batch. Anywhere from flintlock-like half second delays to 10-15 second delays. Made for an interesting day.

Wowzers!

DaNgErOuS!

Reminds me:
A few months ago an old timer who hasn't shot in years brought along an old (original) GI 1911 and some ancient ammo. After we shot it with modern ammo and got him back up to speed, he wanted to shoot some of that old ammo.

Minuteman · Jul 4, 2017

Bump for the poll about squibs. Great videos in the first page.

Blaster229 · Jul 6, 2017

This was a thread from April. We've tired of it already. Looking forward to your next 3 comment top heavy original thread though.

jrumann59 · Jul 6, 2017

when I started reloading, i made rounds with different charges. After each batch I marked all the heads with different color model paint so I could keep track of the ones I liked. whe I went to the range I only loaded one per mag with an empty casing, one to see if it would cycle also for just in case I had a weak formula.

Minuteman · Jul 7, 2017

jrumann59 said:
when I started reloading, i made rounds with different charges. After each batch I marked all the heads with different color model paint so I could keep track of the ones I liked. whe I went to the range I only loaded one per mag with an empty casing, one to see if it would cycle also for just in case I had a weak formula.

That's clever!

I see guys that reload testing out cartridges all the time. I'm sure folks that reload are much more aware of what their guns are doing, and more keen to detect a squib.

This is such an important safety topic, everyone needs to be aware. There is a poll asking who has experienced a squib, in general it's very rare, which could lead a lot of people to think it could never happen. But not so, it's rare but but if you are an avid shooter will eventually happen.

Doctor_M · Jul 7, 2017

I had a thought the other day, but I'm not sure if it is a good idea or not. I kind of want to teach my daughter how to deal with a squib in a practical sense.... I was thinking about maybe loading a .38 without powder and during a shooting session giving her a revolver with that single cartridge in the cylinder (to eliminate the possibility of a second round being fired after the potential squib), and then working her through the process of diagnosing and fixing it. Part of me thinks this would be a good real-life exercise, and part of me thinks that intentionally introducing a potential squib round is a bad idea. You can talk about "when something doesn't feel right", but it seems hard to actually replicate that in a controlled sense, and hard for an beginning shooter to really know what something amiss feels like... Throwing it out for input....

Mark75H · Jul 7, 2017

Doctor_M said:
I had a thought the other day, but I'm not sure if it is a good idea or not. I kind of want to teach my daughter how to deal with a squib in a practical sense.... I was thinking about maybe loading a .38 without powder and during a shooting session giving her a revolver with that single cartridge in the cylinder (to eliminate the possibility of a second round being fired after the potential squib), and then working her through the process of diagnosing and fixing it. Part of me thinks this would be a good real-life exercise, and part of me thinks that intentionally introducing a potential squib round is a bad idea. You can talk about "when something doesn't feel right", but it seems hard to actually replicate that in a controlled sense, and hard for an beginning shooter to really know what something amiss feels like... Throwing it out for input....

Instead do a primer only without a bullet; then hand push a bullet into the forcing cone or beyond and have her knock it out.

Minuteman · Jul 7, 2017

Mark75H said:
Instead do a primer only without a bullet; then hand push a bullet into the forcing cone or beyond and have her knock it out.

That's a good idea. My first thought was to just use a blank, they are significantly quieter than a real shell.

Mark75H · Jul 8, 2017

Minuteman said:
That's a good idea. My first thought was to just use a blank, they are significantly quieter than a real shell.

That's a good idea too. Anything that's not normal is a flag for possible squib if you can't confirm a bullet left the barrel.

Different sound, different feel, lack of muzzle flash when you expected it.

molonlabe · Jul 8, 2017

halltrail said:
Specs/recipe I was using:

Glock 21 .45 ACP
5.9 grains of Win 231
Hornady 200 grain JHP
Brass: New Winchester
Primer: Winchester large-Pistol.
OAL: 1.230 (If I remember correctly)
Crimp: .470

Over the years I developed the habit of taking the reloading tray and make no sure cases are all charged and the same level. A .38 load of 4.2 gr of 231 a double charge can not only be catastrophic as a no charge with a bullet in the barrel. It's an easy worthwhile check. On loads with full case capacity I do it anyway.

molonlabe · Jul 8, 2017

Blaster229 said:
This was a thread from April. We've tired of it already. Looking forward to your next 3 comment top heavy original thread though.

Ha, didn't notice that.

Minuteman · Jul 8, 2017

Here's a squib question.

What's more dangerous, a bullet lodged near the end of the barrel, or one lodged closer to the breach?

Assuming a new full power cartridge fires after it.

Mark75H · Jul 8, 2017

Minuteman said:
Here's a squib question.

What's more dangerous, a bullet lodged near the end of the barrel, or one lodged closer to the breach?

Assuming a new full power cartridge fires after it.

Gonna depend on the barrel, the bullet and the burn rate of the powder; not where the bullet stops.

OnTarget · Jul 8, 2017

I guess my biggest fear would be having ear muffs on and, therefore, not hearing the unusual sound of a squib, when it occurred.
As to this thread, I'm so glad the subject is being discussed.

Mark75H · Jul 8, 2017

OnTarget said:
I guess my biggest fear would be having ear muffs on and, therefore, not hearing the unusual sound of a squib, when it occurred.
As to this thread, I'm so glad the subject is being discussed.

Even with muffs you can tell 'different' from regular

Minuteman · Jul 8, 2017

Mark75H said:
Gonna depend on the barrel, the bullet and the burn rate of the powder; not where the bullet stops.

Good point.

But lets assume every other factor were equal. Where the bullet is lodged is irrelevant?

Doctor_M · Jul 10, 2017

Mark75H said:
Instead do a primer only without a bullet; then hand push a bullet into the forcing cone or beyond and have her knock it out.

Minuteman said:
That's a good idea. My first thought was to just use a blank, they are significantly quieter than a real shell.

Both good suggestions! Thanks, gents! :thumbsup:

Squib - and how to deal with it.

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