Modern 1873 rifle/45 Colt ammo questions

MattTheGunslinger · Jul 9, 2020

Picking up my dream gun tomorrow. A Uberti/Winchester 1873 in 45 Colt. I have a few questions about it and the 45 Colt round.

1. What would a safe load be for this rifle? I know the '73 toggle lock is said to be weaker than say, a '92 or was that just a issue in the 1800's with originals due to lesser grades of steel compared to what we have today? Am I limited to "cowboy" loads or can I use something more stout for a bit of defensive/hunting versatility?

2. What technically is considered a "cowboy" load. I know its less velocity for easier follow up shots, but I dont know how much less than standard.

3. What is considered standard loads for the 45 Colt?

4. I currently have a New Vaquero in 45 Colt to partner with my new '73. Has anyone found a load, factory or hand load, that works nicely in both rifle and pistol?

Thanks in advance.

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Jul 9, 2020

Any standard pressure .45 Colt should be fine. The metallurgy today is far better than back in the day. Also...if Uberti didn't think it was safe they wouldn't chamber it in that caliber.

The original rifles in the 1800s weren't even chambered for the .45 Colt round...the original .45 Colt didn't have enough rim for the extractors of the day to grab ahold of. With modern ammunition design (it's had a real rim for a loooong time now) and modern design and manufacturing it's not an issue anymore.

As far as power...if you want more power than a standard .45 Colt then get a .44 Magnum lever gun.

MattTheGunslinger · Jul 9, 2020

Thanks for the reply. I think any standard pressure 45 colt is what I needed to hear. I know they wouldn’t label it 45 colt if it can’t handle it and the steel is better today. I just wasn’t sure if the toggle had any physical limitations I wasn’t aware of and if there was any loads I should stay away from. I’m not looking at getting into another caliber(yet) so 44mag isn’t an option plus 45 colt is capable of being loaded to handle most of my needs.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 9, 2020

For standard pressure aka actual old west era performance , think 255gr @ +/- 850 fps . Certain handloads can reach well into 900's (pistol) within SAAMI .

For " cowboy " meaning CAS , think 700-750fps .

Occam · Jul 9, 2020

I was getting into Cowboy matches, and brought home an Uberti '73 in 45LC.

Mrs. Occam tried it out, and essentially said, "It was very nice of you to bring this home for me. If you want one, get your own."

So, now we have two. It remains her favorite gun to shoot. Her first cowboy match, she nailed a 6" swinger at a good distance, and chased it around with every shot until she ran dry. There was much whooping and whatnot. We have a house full of guns, but I think that's the last one she'd part with. Have fun! Such a classic, the '73.

MattTheGunslinger · Jul 10, 2020

Biggfoot44 said:
For standard pressure aka actual old west era performance , think 255gr @ +/- 850 fps . Certain handloads can reach well into 900's (pistol) within SAAMI .

For " cowboy " meaning CAS , think 700-750fps .

Thank you for that info. I couldnt find anything that said what standard velocity was. Either info on the 45colt is few and far between or I just suck at googling stuff.... Probably the later. Any idea what the standard velocity would be coming out of a 24” barrel?

MattTheGunslinger · Jul 10, 2020

Occam said:
I was getting into Cowboy matches, and brought home an Uberti '73 in 45LC.

Mrs. Occam tried it out, and essentially said, "It was very nice of you to bring this home for me. If you want one, get your own."

So, now we have two. It remains her favorite gun to shoot. Her first cowboy match, she nailed a 6" swinger at a good distance, and chased it around with every shot until she ran dry. There was much whooping and whatnot. We have a house full of guns, but I think that's the last one she'd part with. Have fun! Such a classic, the '73.

I would eventually like to get into cowboy action. The ‘73 has been my dream gun for years after seeing Jimmy Stewart in Winchester ‘73 and I think it would be so cool to use it in competition. I told my wife about this rifle but she hasn’t seen it yet. Sure hope she doesn’t try to steal it! lol I would like it if she got more into shooting like that though. It would be worth another rifle for sure.

Uncle Duke · Jul 10, 2020

Matt said:
Thank you for that info. I couldnt find anything that said what standard velocity was. Either info on the 45colt is few and far between or I just suck at googling stuff.... Probably the later. Any idea what the standard velocity would be coming out of a 24” barrel?

For spitballing purposes, Ballistics by the Inch shows a muzzle velocity of 1122fps for a standard 225 grain Federal LSWC out of a Winchester 92 with a 20 inch barrel.

jimbobborg · Jul 11, 2020

With the toggle-link lever guns, avoid any +P ammunition. BTW, I'd highly suggest you get into reloading if you plan to shoot it a lot. Last time I went looking for cowboy loads, it was $50 for a box of 50. If the gun shows ever start up again, Georgia Arms has decent pricing on .45 Colt cowboy ammunition.

Occam · Jul 11, 2020

jimbobborg said:
With the toggle-link lever guns, avoid any +P ammunition. BTW, I'd highly suggest you get into reloading if you plan to shoot it a lot. Last time I went looking for cowboy loads, it was $50 for a box of 50. If the gun shows ever start up again, Georgia Arms has decent pricing on .45 Colt cowboy ammunition.

Agreed, it adds up fast when you’re having fun with those cowboy guns. The good news is it’s an easy, forgiving round to reload for that kind of use.

Uncle Duke · Jul 11, 2020

Congrats on your beautiful rifle! Can't think of the '73 without thinking about the one they found leaning up against a tree in Nevada.

https://www.winchesterguns.com/news...found-against-a-tree-at-great-basin-nati.html

hodgepodge · Jul 11, 2020

For a 200g bullet, the book says 5.5-6.5g of Trail Boss. I started off at 5.5 for CAS; it was a little weak. I've settled in at 5.8g.

Try a few commercial loads to see what's comfortable or roll your own.

vipor5 · Jul 11, 2020

Any cowboy load will work just avoid this high performance stuff created for these Judge/Governor revolvers. Online lots of the stuff exists from places like Buffalo bore. an easy reload and easy to mold bullets for. Lots of good reload forums and data for making the most of these long barrel cowboy rounds with modern powders. Just need to start your brass collection. And Hell if you don't mind doing a lot of cleaning there are lots of Black powder loads available.

http://www.selwayarmory.com/shop-by-category/pistol-ammunition/45-long-colt.html $24.99 a box o 50 perfect for your rifle 152 boxes available. They will ship it right to your door and their shipping is usually really cheep.

Bolts Rock · Jul 11, 2020

Matt said:
1. What would a safe load be for this rifle? I know the '73 toggle lock is said to be weaker than say, a '92 or was that just a issue in the 1800's with originals due to lesser grades of steel compared to what we have today? Am I limited to "cowboy" loads or can I use something more stout for a bit of defensive/hunting versatility?

2. What technically is considered a "cowboy" load. I know its less velocity for easier follow up shots, but I dont know how much less than standard.

3. What is considered standard loads for the 45 Colt?

4. I currently have a New Vaquero in 45 Colt to partner with my new '73. Has anyone found a load, factory or hand load, that works nicely in both rifle and pistol?

Thanks in advance.

1- The 1860, 1866 and 1873 toggle link actions are a lot weaker than the 1892 and 1894; just the nature of the beast. That said the modern guns will handle SAAMI standard loads just fine although long term wear can be an issue.

2- Cowboy loads cannot be less than 400fps from a pistol, no greater than 1000fps from a pistol or 1400fps from a rifle. Minimum power factor of 60 (bullet weight times muzzle velocity divided by 1000).

3- look it up in wikipedia, it will give you the original specs.

4- most cowboy shooters use the same loads for rifle and pistol. Mine is Federal LPP, 6.0gr Trail Boss, 200gr LRNFP which is the exact Middle charge Hodgdon lists for for Trail Boss cowboy loads. Works just fine. For the same velocity I prefer Trail Boss over Titegroup because it's less snappy, dirtier though.

Factory loads I have been happy with- Winchester Cowboy, Georgia Arms Cowboy, Black Hills Cowboy, Fiocchi Cowboy, HSM Cowboy, Aguila Cowboy. Doesn't really matter to me if the bullet is 200, 250 or 255 grain.

MattTheGunslinger · Jul 15, 2020

Uncle Duke said:
Congrats on your beautiful rifle! Can't think of the '73 without thinking about the one they found leaning up against a tree in Nevada.

https://www.winchesterguns.com/news...found-against-a-tree-at-great-basin-nati.html

Thanks! I cant wait to shoot this thing. hopefully this weekend!

Yeah, that story is amazing. I wish that gun could talk. The display they made for it looks pretty nice and I would love to take a trip out their to see it.

MattTheGunslinger · Jul 15, 2020

Bolts Rock said:
1- The 1860, 1866 and 1873 toggle link actions are a lot weaker than the 1892 and 1894; just the nature of the beast. That said the modern guns will handle SAAMI standard loads just fine although long term wear can be an issue.

2- Cowboy loads cannot be less than 400fps from a pistol, no greater than 1000fps from a pistol or 1400fps from a rifle. Minimum power factor of 60 (bullet weight times muzzle velocity divided by 1000.

3- look it up in wikipedia, it will give you the original specs.

4- most cowboy shooters use the same loads for rifle and pistol. Mine is Federal LPP, 6.0gr Trail Boss, 200gr LRNFP which is the exact Middle charge Hodgdon lists for for Trail Boss cowboy loads. Works just fine. For the same velocity I prefer Trail Boss over Titegroup because it's less snappy, dirtier though.

Factory loads I have been happy with- Winchester Cowboy, Georgia Arms Cowboy, Black Hills Cowboy, Fiocchi Cowboy, HSM Cowboy, Aguila Cowboy. Doesn't really matter to me if the bullet is 200, 250 or 255 grain.

Thanks for the great info!

Bolts Rock · Jul 15, 2020

Matt said:
Thanks for the great info!

You're welcome.

Modern 1873 rifle/45 Colt ammo questions

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