plinkerton
Ultimate Member
Is someone who had an involuntary commitment at age 15 considered a prohibited person?
I Googled and can't find a definitive answer
I Googled and can't find a definitive answer
Last edited:
Under 18 involuntary commitment
- Thread starter plinkerton
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- Feb 28, 2013
- 28,953
plinkerton
Ultimate Member
Juvenile crimes prohibit you until age 30 or 35, and that cannot be found by the average background check, that’s why we were wondering about mental health commitment
alucard0822
For great Justice
Depends on what you mean by "involuntary commitment". If court ordered or adjucated by certain government boards, then it's a lifetime prohibition. If a court wasn't involved, and it was a shrink or parents that sent them, and the facility held them till they were released, then most likely not prohibited. In either case a lawyer to clarify it is cheaper than a charge.
Metal health commitments do not fall under the criminal history rules at all and it's a completely separate set of laws. I believe all mental health commitments are discoverable whether juvenile or not by MSP in the 77r process. We've had members here before who have been denied because of juvenile stays in facilities.
j_h_smith
Ultimate Member
- Jul 28, 2007
- 28,516
I would think that ANYONE under the age of consent, who is committed would be considered involuntary. Since they are not of legal age, how can they commit themselves. Someone else would have to commit them (parent or guardian). As to being a prohibited person, my guess would be that the duration and scope of the commitment would probably dictate that.
Not sure there is an official answer for this.
danb
dont be a dumbass
Keep in mind, rules are different for handguns amd long guns.
No 77r for long guns.
Not sure if MD would report this as a state prohibitor.. 4473 instructions dont have an exception for juvenile committment. Only a distiction between voluntary/involuntary. "observation" does not count as involuntary, per guidelines.
Also, its not "lifetime" if you can get a court or agency to say one longer suffers from the condition. One can get relief.
No 77r for long guns.
Not sure if MD would report this as a state prohibitor.. 4473 instructions dont have an exception for juvenile committment. Only a distiction between voluntary/involuntary. "observation" does not count as involuntary, per guidelines.
Also, its not "lifetime" if you can get a court or agency to say one longer suffers from the condition. One can get relief.
plinkerton
Ultimate Member
All of the above answers are good, and are in line with how I was thinking.
A younger friend of mine who is now a responsible late 20's young lady spent a few days at Shepard Pratt when she was 15. There were family issues, and the police got involved. The police gave her mother a choice, 15 year old girl goes to Shepard Pratt or 15 year old girl goes to jail. She didn't give me and I didn't ask for any details beyond that.
No mental or legal issues since then.
She was taken there by her mother. There was no court involvement, I don't believe she was "committed"
My reading of the 77R puts her in the clear, it references Maryland Code 10-101, and she has no mental disease. I don't think, and this is the tough point, and where I now think she needs to talk to a lawyer, but does her mother taking her there meet the "involuntary committed" standard?
My reading of the instructions for question 11 f on the 4473 because she was never committed by a court she is OK for a long gun.
A younger friend of mine who is now a responsible late 20's young lady spent a few days at Shepard Pratt when she was 15. There were family issues, and the police got involved. The police gave her mother a choice, 15 year old girl goes to Shepard Pratt or 15 year old girl goes to jail. She didn't give me and I didn't ask for any details beyond that.
No mental or legal issues since then.
She was taken there by her mother. There was no court involvement, I don't believe she was "committed"
My reading of the 77R puts her in the clear, it references Maryland Code 10-101, and she has no mental disease. I don't think, and this is the tough point, and where I now think she needs to talk to a lawyer, but does her mother taking her there meet the "involuntary committed" standard?
My reading of the instructions for question 11 f on the 4473 because she was never committed by a court she is OK for a long gun.
danb
dont be a dumbass
It does not matter whats "true," only whats been reported. How did the nurse/doctor fill out the form and put it in the system?
Even if it does not meet the standard, you need to find out what is actually in the system, because there have been cases where nurses filled out the form a certain way and reported it that way.
You dont want to be a situation where you fill out a 4473 or 77r only to find out that this was reported (perhaps incorrectly).
Step 1 seems to me is to get the records. Then proceed from there.
plinkerton
Ultimate Member
The records and an attorney.
alucard0822
For great Justice
The nurse/doctor doesn't send a report to NICS, the courts do(civil, criminal or probate), they are state reccords, not private "medical records". If there was no court order, even if her parents took her in kicking and screaming, it is not an involuntary commitment, it was "voluntary", by way of her parents. Of course get records and pay a couple bucks to have an Attorney verify that is the case, if so she is GTG provided it was not more than a 30 day stretch.
plinkerton
Ultimate Member
She doesn't recall how many days exactly, but she says she didn't miss a
full week of school, a couple days one week, and a day or two the next week, so I'm thinking along the same lines
Federal and MD rules differ.
Federal requires a court adjudication and involuntary commitment.
MD law states an involuntary commitment or a voluntary commitment of more than 30 days.
Consult an attorney.
Federal requires a court adjudication and involuntary commitment.
MD law states an involuntary commitment or a voluntary commitment of more than 30 days.
Consult an attorney.
Even if she was involuntary admitted, there is still a 72 hour evaluation period in the hospital to determine if the involuntary is warranted. It's part of the adjudication process. It isn't until after the evaluation period, and some kind of quasi judicial body makes a determination, that an involuntary is finalized.
This is backed up by a court case called Furda.
Additionally, commitments are NOT a lifetime prohibitors in MD anymore. If I recall, MD has a relief process to restore rights.
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/f...on=5-205&ext=html&session=2018RS&tab=subject5
"(e) A person who is disqualified from owning a rifle or shotgun under subsection (b)(6), (7), (8), (9), (10), or (11) of this section may seek relief from the disqualification in accordance with § 5–133.3 of this title."
Section 9 referrs to voluntary over 30 days
Section 10 referrs involuntary
The relief process in PS 5-133.3
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/f...=5-133.3&ext=html&session=2018RS&tab=subject5
This is backed up by a court case called Furda.
Additionally, commitments are NOT a lifetime prohibitors in MD anymore. If I recall, MD has a relief process to restore rights.
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/f...on=5-205&ext=html&session=2018RS&tab=subject5
"(e) A person who is disqualified from owning a rifle or shotgun under subsection (b)(6), (7), (8), (9), (10), or (11) of this section may seek relief from the disqualification in accordance with § 5–133.3 of this title."
Section 9 referrs to voluntary over 30 days
Section 10 referrs involuntary
The relief process in PS 5-133.3
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/f...=5-133.3&ext=html&session=2018RS&tab=subject5
metalman3006
Gun Hoarder
Yes my brother in law was the first one in maryland to restore his rights after a juvenile involuntarily commitment, he did get hassled 1 more time after it was all said and done, State police showed up early in the morning a couple of years ago looking to confiscate his guns because they weren't told his rights were restored, he now always keeps a copy of his paper work handy.
https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=136525
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