HB786/SB737 RIFLE & SHOTGUN SENATE TODAY 4/5 11AM

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  • Malleovic

    Active Member
    Apr 21, 2017
    193
    Maryland
    What are your thoughts on the future now that Busch is no longer a factor? Is there anyone that can replace him that will have as strong an influence? I feel like this might not be the case (but I've only been in MD for 7 or 8 years now) given the sheer length of tenure Busch had within the MGA. Do they have anyone that can force the Dems to march lockstep in the future? Or is there a chance for outliers to split off on disastrous bills like the FSA2013?

    https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=5534909#post5534909

    https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=5534925#post5534925

    We should be encouraged by the chaos that is already starting to ensue from the collapse of the M&M show.

    I have it on good authority that a mere half hour after Speaker Busch's passing, Del. McIntosh was already calling her fellow legislators asking for support in a bid for the Speakership. In at least one case the crass move was not well received.
     

    SPQM

    Active Member
    May 21, 2014
    302
    Crossposted from the Sine Die 2019 thread and slightly edited for more information...

    The Mike & Mike show could have rammed any of these bills down our throats, the same way they did FSA 2013 back then; via the threats they pulled in 2013 that I just heard about now (I wasn't paying close attention back in 2013; sorry :( )

    So what made Mike & Mike let the HPRB board bill and that other minor loan to prohibited person bill through, while letting all the other bills (including the LGQL/UBC bill) die?

    If they really wanted, Mike & Mike could have reconciled the bill differences weeks ago; and had a version ready for a vote weeks ago, rather than waiting till Sine Die day to do last minute attempts at reconciliation.

    It can't be due to turnout; because while I don't remember the particular legal shennigans that M&M pulled on the General Assembly; I do remember everyone filling up Annapolis with protesters -- and they still passed FSA 2013 anyway.

    So what changed that made them have the cut down "Long Gun UBC" bill die in scheduling conference?

    This is important to think over, because right now, Universal Background Checks are the Hot Cause Celibre of the left and are getting passed in state after state as they focus their energies on it.

    I think it's because in addition to a high turnout this year by pro gun forces; the messaging on our side changed.

    WILL NOT COMPLY

    Flaunting that openly, in tee shirts; followed by the aerial banner towing on Sine Die saying

    WE WILL NOT COMPLY ! HOW ABOUT YOU LARRY ?

    Caused them to cool off; because they recognized that gun owning Marylanders were starting to shift towards active disobedience.

    Typing on an internet message board how you won't comply is cheap talk.

    Showing up at a controlled access building (MD State House) wearing WILL NOT COMPLY shirts in today's mass surveillance state (Facebook AutoFacial Recognition, or the fact you have to sign the register at MD State House to get in), sends a damn powerful message.

    Unfortunately, I think even with the boost that was received from Patriot Picket's WILL NOT COMPLY efforts; I think the biggest reason they held fire was that....there was no immediate aftermath of a mass shooting to inflame the other side into trying to DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING.

    Statistically speaking, we're likely to have a mass shooting at some point in time before a MD General Assembly session; so we have to be prepared for them to go full throttle ahead and damn the torpedoes.

    It probably won't happen until Lawn Chair Larry is gone, though.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    I had written to my senator (Susan Lee) asking for her opposition to this. Finally got a response back, theoretically from her chief of staff, Michael Lore. He's obviously pleased to make sure I know we're in for the same fight all over again:

    "Dear Mr. XXXXXXX,

    Thank you for your email. This legislation failed to pass this session. The background check provision on private sales is likely to pass in future sessions.

    Regards,
    Michael
    --
    Michael Lore
    Chief of Staff
    11 Bladen Street - Room 223
    Annapolis, MD 21401
    (410) 841-3124"
     

    TexDefender

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2017
    1,572
    Crossposted from the Sine Die 2019 thread and slightly edited for more information...

    The Mike & Mike show could have rammed any of these bills down our throats, the same way they did FSA 2013 back then; via the threats they pulled in 2013 that I just heard about now (I wasn't paying close attention back in 2013; sorry :( )

    So what made Mike & Mike let the HPRB board bill and that other minor loan to prohibited person bill through, while letting all the other bills (including the LGQL/UBC bill) die?

    If they really wanted, Mike & Mike could have reconciled the bill differences weeks ago; and had a version ready for a vote weeks ago, rather than waiting till Sine Die day to do last minute attempts at reconciliation.

    It can't be due to turnout; because while I don't remember the particular legal shennigans that M&M pulled on the General Assembly; I do remember everyone filling up Annapolis with protesters -- and they still passed FSA 2013 anyway.

    So what changed that made them have the cut down "Long Gun UBC" bill die in scheduling conference?

    This is important to think over, because right now, Universal Background Checks are the Hot Cause Celibre of the left and are getting passed in state after state as they focus their energies on it.

    I think it's because in addition to a high turnout this year by pro gun forces; the messaging on our side changed.

    WILL NOT COMPLY

    Flaunting that openly, in tee shirts; followed by the aerial banner towing on Sine Die saying

    WE WILL NOT COMPLY ! HOW ABOUT YOU LARRY ?

    Caused them to cool off; because they recognized that gun owning Marylander's were starting to shift towards active disobedience.

    Typing on an internet message board how you won't comply is cheap talk.

    Showing up at a controlled access building (MD State House) wearing WILL NOT COMPLY shirts in today's mass surveillance state (Facebook AutoFacial Recognition, or the fact you have to sign the register at MD State House to get in), sends a damn powerful message.

    Unfortunately, I think even with the boost that was received from Patriot Picket's WILL NOT COMPLY efforts; I think the biggest reason they held fire was that....there was no immediate aftermath of a mass shooting to inflame the other side into trying to DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING.

    Statistically speaking, we're likely to have a mass shooting at some point in time before a MD General Assembly session; so we have to be prepared for them to go full throttle ahead and damn the torpedoes.

    It probably won't happen until Lawn Chair Larry is gone, though.

    I have two possible explanations as to why this occurred. Although the openly flaunting the WWNC tee shirts played a factor it it only gained some short term publicity, the same for the aerial banner towing on Sine Die.

    It was several things, happening at the right time. For example:

    - By beating the Mom's Demand Action group to the door of the judicial committees allowed our cause to take center stage or be in the spotlight if your prefer.
    - People showing up at the hearings, being well prepared and able to intelligently testify helped as well.
    - The opposition action group became overbearing this legislative period, and the legislators sponsoring these bills were overconfident at the ease in which they thought these bills would pass.
    - The range of Anti-A2 bill this year were see by many as over-reaching. Case in-point being the way the Colt Heavy Barrel Ban was presented.
    - Mike Busch illness/death, no doubt created a power vacuum that I have no doubt case a certain amount of chaos, political wrangling, and caused a lack of a consolidated effort by our opposition. This maybe the biggest single reason why some of these bills didn't pass.

    I would be careful and try not to overplay the WWNC. Civil disobedience has to be carefully used and timed. I believe we have to think long term and have a strategy for the next session. We need to submit bills that chip away from the bad laws that have passed. We need to map our a course of action out. We need to get ready for the next governor election. A summit/convention, say in June or July could be good way to get leaders of the MSI, NRA, State Gun Clubs, and others on the same page for upcoming fight. We need to civil to reach out to those in the middle, evaluate our situation, and not live in a echo chamber. Our opponents are good at this, we need to get better than them.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    I would be careful and try not to overplay the WWNC. Civil disobedience has to be carefully used and timed. I believe we have to think long term and have a strategy for the next session. We need to submit bills that chip away from the bad laws that have passed. We need to map our a course of action out. We need to get ready for the next governor election. A summit/convention, say in June or July could be good way to get leaders of the MSI, NRA, State Gun Clubs, and others on the same page for upcoming fight. We need to civil to reach out to those in the middle, evaluate our situation, and not live in a echo chamber. Our opponents are good at this, we need to get better than them.
    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    Every chance we get to stick the tip of the knife (not the whole thing mind you) and twist it a little bit, would only piss them off more and make them make further, and hopefully larger, mistakes. Folks, it is time to sit down and discuss Alinsky, and putting his play book into action.

    Concur. In addition to Alinsky, cue Sun Tzu.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    Crossposted from the Sine Die 2019 thread and slightly edited for more information...

    The Mike & Mike show could have rammed any of these bills down our throats, the same way they did FSA 2013 back then; via the threats they pulled in 2013 that I just heard about now (I wasn't paying close attention back in 2013; sorry :( )

    So what made Mike & Mike let the HPRB board bill and that other minor loan to prohibited person bill through, while letting all the other bills (including the LGQL/UBC bill) die?

    If they really wanted, Mike & Mike could have reconciled the bill differences weeks ago; and had a version ready for a vote weeks ago, rather than waiting till Sine Die day to do last minute attempts at reconciliation.

    It can't be due to turnout; because while I don't remember the particular legal shennigans that M&M pulled on the General Assembly; I do remember everyone filling up Annapolis with protesters -- and they still passed FSA 2013 anyway.

    So what changed that made them have the cut down "Long Gun UBC" bill die in scheduling conference?

    This is important to think over, because right now, Universal Background Checks are the Hot Cause Celibre of the left and are getting passed in state after state as they focus their energies on it.

    I think it's because in addition to a high turnout this year by pro gun forces; the messaging on our side changed.

    WILL NOT COMPLY

    Flaunting that openly, in tee shirts; followed by the aerial banner towing on Sine Die saying

    WE WILL NOT COMPLY ! HOW ABOUT YOU LARRY ?

    Caused them to cool off; because they recognized that gun owning Marylanders were starting to shift towards active disobedience.

    Typing on an internet message board how you won't comply is cheap talk.

    Showing up at a controlled access building (MD State House) wearing WILL NOT COMPLY shirts in today's mass surveillance state (Facebook AutoFacial Recognition, or the fact you have to sign the register at MD State House to get in), sends a damn powerful message.

    Unfortunately, I think even with the boost that was received from Patriot Picket's WILL NOT COMPLY efforts; I think the biggest reason they held fire was that....there was no immediate aftermath of a mass shooting to inflame the other side into trying to DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING.

    Statistically speaking, we're likely to have a mass shooting at some point in time before a MD General Assembly session; so we have to be prepared for them to go full throttle ahead and damn the torpedoes.

    It probably won't happen until Lawn Chair Larry is gone, though.

    By then, we'll have even more WWNC shirts ready for distribution and way more patriots than handcuffs!

    I think everyone caught on to the traction the WWNC gained in other states. Combine this with the spontaneous quiet noncompliance in CA and NJ, and the handwriting was on the wall for all to see.

    Now how do we leverage this next year?
     

    hillbilly grandpa

    Active Member
    Jan 26, 2013
    962
    Arnold
    I think everyone caught on to the traction the WWNC gained in other states. Combine this with the spontaneous quiet noncompliance in CA and NJ, and the handwriting was on the wall for all to see.

    Now how do we leverage this next year?

    Well, this forum is not the place to bulk up and refine strategy. I suggest you PM dblas and let him know you're ready to step up. We're past the time when digital masturbation will cut it.

    The foregoing is a general positional observation--not aimed at anyone in particular. I acknowledge that different members have a wide variety of approaches to 2A issues.
     
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