Grandfathering for Bump Stocks or Binary Triggers

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  • Maswasnos

    Member
    Feb 24, 2018
    24
    PG County
    First post in this forum so please correct me if this is in the wrong spot. I'm concerned about grandfathering my Fostech Echo under this new ban.

    After reading through the bill here I figured I'd send the ATF an email at fipb@atf.gov to see if they could give me some kind of "authorization" so I don't become a felon in 2019.

    The text of my email was as follows:

    Hello,

    I recently came into possession of a Fostech brand Echo trigger for an AR-15 rifle. Given the capabilities of such a trigger, I feel the need to ask the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives if I am authorized to be in possession of and to use such a device. I am not barred from owning firearms and I have filled out two form 4473's over the past month, receiving approval from NICS to purchase both a handgun and a rifle. I was unable to find any application forms on www.ATF.gov relevant to this specific device, so directly inquiring via email seemed the best option. I am aware that the laws regarding these devices are in a constant state of change, and I would like to do everything I can to be in compliance.

    Thank you very much, [my real name]


    And the response I received shortly afterwards:

    The item listed in your question is not regulated by ATF. Your question appears to be related to the recently signed statute that restricts possession in Maryland of “rapid fire trigger activators,” defined as any device, including a bump stock, that increases a firearm’s rate of fire, or the rate at which the trigger is activated. The statute specifically prohibits any person from transporting a rapid-fire trigger activator into Maryland, or manufacturing, possessing, selling, offering to sell, transferring, purchasing, or receiving a rapid-fire trigger activator in the State. The statute also contains a provision that purports to allow Maryland residents already in possession of a device covered by the law to continue to possess that device in Maryland if they file an application for “authorization” to possess the device with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) before October 1, 2018.

    Maryland residents who intend to file applications with ATF for “authorization” to possess devices covered by the referenced Maryland statute should be aware that ATF is without legal authority to accept and process such an application. Consequently, ATF respectfully requests that Maryland residents not file applications or other requests for “authorization” from ATF to possess rapid fire trigger activators as defined in the State statute. Any such applications or requests will be returned to the applicant without action. ATF regrets any confusion and inconvenience caused by the provisions of the Maryland statute that mistakenly indicate ATF has the authority to approve possession of devices covered by the statute.

    Regards,

    Kyle Lallensack

    Chief, FIPB


    So, given this information, how should I/we proceed? Has anyone heard of any lawsuits coming against this bill?

    Maybe I should just move out of state or get a storage unit elsewhere.


    EDIT: Screenshot of email with my name scratched out:
    aIZKF69.jpg


    EDIT2: Added ATF email address: fipb@atf.gov
     
    Last edited:

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    This is exactly what I told everyone would happen. The BATFE does not have the authority to deal with this issue. All bumpstocks, binary triggers, cranks, whatever are gonna be illegal to own come Oct 1. Genuine MGs (drop-in sears, LLs, drop-in sear trigger packs, etc.) will be the items grandfathered.
     

    shootin the breeze

    Missed it by that much
    Dec 22, 2012
    3,878
    Highland
    This is exactly what I told everyone would happen. The BATFE does not have the authority to deal with this issue. All bumpstocks, binary triggers, cranks, whatever are gonna be illegal to own come Oct 1. Genuine MGs (drop-in sears, LLs, drop-in sear trigger packs, etc.) will be the items grandfathered.

    Yep and as planned by the Assembly.
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    That ATF reply should be saved. It should go to a lawyer. It should be used to sue the state of Maryland. Because the state of Maryland fraudulently wrote that ATF approval BS into a BS bill.

    Can a good group of legal eagles stall the implementation of these gun grabbing laws?

    Where do we send money to fund the lawsuits?
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    As I expected. We have no recourse to own them after them after October.

    I have one more Echo II left that I'm selling so I don't get hung up in this mess.
     

    IDFInfantry

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 21, 2013
    926
    Nomad
    First post in this forum so please correct me if this is in the wrong spot. I'm concerned about grandfathering my Fostech Echo under this new ban.

    After reading through the bill here I figured I'd send the ATF an email to see if they could give me some kind of "authorization" so I don't become a felon in 2019.

    The text of my email was as follows:

    Hello,

    I recently came into possession of a Fostech brand Echo trigger for an AR-15 rifle. Given the capabilities of such a trigger, I feel the need to ask the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives if I am authorized to be in possession of and to use such a device. I am not barred from owning firearms and I have filled out two form 4473's over the past month, receiving approval from NICS to purchase both a handgun and a rifle. I was unable to find any application forms on www.ATF.gov relevant to this specific device, so directly inquiring via email seemed the best option. I am aware that the laws regarding these devices are in a constant state of change, and I would like to do everything I can to be in compliance.

    Thank you very much, [my real name]


    And the response I received shortly afterwards:

    The item listed in your question is not regulated by ATF. Your question appears to be related to the recently signed statute that restricts possession in Maryland of “rapid fire trigger activators,” defined as any device, including a bump stock, that increases a firearm’s rate of fire, or the rate at which the trigger is activated. The statute specifically prohibits any person from transporting a rapid-fire trigger activator into Maryland, or manufacturing, possessing, selling, offering to sell, transferring, purchasing, or receiving a rapid-fire trigger activator in the State. The statute also contains a provision that purports to allow Maryland residents already in possession of a device covered by the law to continue to possess that device in Maryland if they file an application for “authorization” to possess the device with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) before October 1, 2018.

    Maryland residents who intend to file applications with ATF for “authorization” to possess devices covered by the referenced Maryland statute should be aware that ATF is without legal authority to accept and process such an application. Consequently, ATF respectfully requests that Maryland residents not file applications or other requests for “authorization” from ATF to possess rapid fire trigger activators as defined in the State statute. Any such applications or requests will be returned to the applicant without action. ATF regrets any confusion and inconvenience caused by the provisions of the Maryland statute that mistakenly indicate ATF has the authority to approve possession of devices covered by the statute.

    Regards,

    Kyle Lallensack

    Chief, FIPB


    So, given this information, how should I/we proceed? Has anyone heard of any lawsuits coming against this bill?

    Maybe I should just move out of state or get a storage unit elsewhere.

    What a bad bad idea! Please people don't write letters to the ATF like this! Nothing, I repeat nothing good can come of it!
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    It was intentional. They may be ignorant but I am sure they knew that BATFE cannot do what the bill requires.

    Dumb like foxes they are
     

    eruby

    Confederate Jew
    MDS Supporter
    This is exactly what I told everyone would happen. The BATFE does not have the authority to deal with this issue. All bumpstocks, binary triggers, cranks, whatever are gonna be illegal to own come Oct 1. Genuine MGs (drop-in sears, LLs, drop-in sear trigger packs, etc.) will be the items grandfathered.
    ^^ This.

    It was intentional. They may be ignorant but I am sure they knew that BATFE cannot do what the bill requires.

    Dumb like foxes they are
    And ^^ this.
     

    CrabcakesAndFootball

    Active Member
    Jun 14, 2017
    697
    Am I the only one skeptical that the branch chief responded personally to an email so quickly?

    Ditto. Separately, I'd like to see a braver man than I continually send the ATF a document styled as a request for authorization to continue to possess their device. That would make for an interesting case.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Ditto. Separately, I'd like to see a braver man than I continually send the ATF a document styled as a request for authorization to continue to possess their device. That would make for an interesting case.

    The ATF does not "authorize" possession, and never did. Check your paperwork, its says "Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration." You either paid your tax, or didn't. Something is either subject to NFA, or not.

    I am skeptical partly because of the low post count and partly because its not on ATF letterhead. I would expect some thing more lawyer-like that starts "ATF Rul. 2018-xxx The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has received requests from individuals ..." like this: https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

    But thats me.
     

    CrabcakesAndFootball

    Active Member
    Jun 14, 2017
    697
    The ATF does not "authorize" possession, and never did. Check your paperwork, its says "Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration." You either paid your tax, or didn't. Something is either subject to NFA, or not.

    I am skeptical partly because of the low post count and partly because its not on ATF letterhead. I would expect some thing more lawyer-like that starts "ATF Rul. 2018-xxx The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has received requests from individuals ..." like this: https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

    But thats me.

    I agree with everything you wrote. But the Maryland law only requires you file a request for authorization with the ATF--it'd be interesting to see some cowboy push that language to the limit knowing full well the ATF will return the nonsensical document. Kinda like De Niro's character in Casino continually filing applications for a gaming license and working in the casino in the meantime.
     

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