MOA vs MRAD

shocker998md · Jun 13, 2016

I'm looking at buying a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 for my SPR. Can someone break it down real simple for me? So far this scope has hit every feature I need, external turrets, low magnification and still have enough to get out to 600 yards.

I just don't know which would be better for my needs, MOA or MRAD. I've found that I cant consistently judge 31 inches of drop at 400 yards with a normal scope.

Pinecone · Jun 13, 2016

Both work. Both basically work the same (measure angles). It is helpful if the people you shoot with use the same as you use.

I use mils.

Yoshi · Jun 13, 2016

Pinecone said:
Both work. Both basically work the same (measure angles). It is helpful if the people you shoot with use the same as you use.

I use mils.

This. I have scopes in both and they both work fine.

I have read that the MOA is slightly more precise than MIL... It only equates to 0.1” difference in adjustments at 100 yards or 1” of at 1,000 yards. I can't shoot that.

If I had to choose one, I'd go with the MIL because I prefer communicating in single digits over two digits. (600 yds = 4.8 MILS vs 16.5 MOA) YMMV.

Again, either way is good to go.

Indiana Jones · Jun 13, 2016

Im slowly learning Mils. I will tell you if you plan to use zero stop get a different scope. Vortex uses these little brass shims...it is AWFUL and not a true zero stop. I tried to set mine at the range...bad idea. You need a table and good lighting or you will lose every freaking shim. I would get a better scope to be honest. I drank their kool aid for a while but Im starting to realize theyre all marketing and hype. Go with some time tested and proven like Leupold, Burris, Nightforce's cheaper lines etc are a better way to go if you want to shoot long range and have a solid zero stop with better glass.

davsco · Jun 13, 2016

both measurements do the same thing. this isn't the right word, but basically it's similar to inches vs centimeters, either way lets you measure something. your drop at x yards might be 2 mils or 7.2 moa, either way you just dial or hold for that. i prefer moa just because it's roughly inch-based so easier for me to do the math for any ranging/target distance estimation in my head. but if you're shooting with guys that have mil scopes and mil spotting scopes, go the mil route so that you don't have to do any math when they say you're low half a mil and your scope is in moa.

shocker998md · Jun 13, 2016

what leupold is out there that's close to the same features? I'm wanting to go with vortex or leupold because they give a very good military discount. So I can get a solid scope for ALOT less then a nightforce.

redsandman6 · Jun 13, 2016

the only thing I would add is to make sure the reticle and turrets are in the same measurements. but it just comes down to weather your a standard or metric guy. I prefer mils

shocker998md · Jun 13, 2016

The MOA reticle is the same as the MOA turrets. Not sure how it works with the MRAD reticle and MOA turrets.

sailskidrive · Jun 13, 2016

What platform and caliber?

I have a first focal plane Vortex PST 2.5-10x and a Leupold Mk4 LR/T 4.5-14x. Both were about the same price.

If I could only keep one, I would choose the Leupold. The Vortex is nice but the tint on the PST is really noticeable to me. Also as mentioned, the zero-stop on the Vortex really sucks.

TheBulge · Jun 13, 2016

I think the most critical issue is to get a scope that has turrets with the same subtensions as the reticle.

The next factor would probably be using the same system as other people you shoot/spot with. Mils are more common with long distance shooters.

Don't accept the myth that mils are only metric, they are not. You can use yard or inches just as easily as meters and centimeter. You can even use fathoms or light-years if you want. A mil is simply 1/1000th of the distance.
So
1 mil at 100yds is 0.1yds.
1 mil at 568m is 0.568m.
1 mil at 1000 fathoms is 1 fathom.
etc.

Pinecone · Jun 13, 2016

redsandman6 said:
the only thing I would add is to make sure the reticle and turrets are in the same measurements. but it just comes down to weather your a standard or metric guy. I prefer mils

Mils are NOT metric.

Pinecone · Jun 13, 2016

I have no problem with the Vortex zero stop. It stops the turret from being adjusted much below your 100 yard zero. I have mine set to about .5 - 1 mil below my zero.

You set zero, pull the elevation turret off, insert shims until you cannot put any more in, replace turret. Done, forever.

redsandman6 · Jun 13, 2016

I know they are not metric I was trying to relate it to the same relationship that sae vs metric or inches vs centimeters or liters vs cubic inches have. It's a unit of measurement. They both measure the same thing but do it in different ways.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

Indiana Jones · Jun 13, 2016

shocker998md said:
what leupold is out there that's close to the same features? I'm wanting to go with vortex or leupold because they give a very good military discount. So I can get a solid scope for ALOT less then a nightforce.

Burris will give a military discount. Pretty sure it is at least 50%, maybe more. You will notice FAR superior features than the Vortex. I own a Viper PST 6-24 and an XTR II 4-20. I gave the Viper to a friend to borrow specifically because of the zero stop and glass tint. Both companies have the same warranty, both scopes are from the same factory. XTR II zero stop: loosen two screws, adjust, tighten two screws. Done. Don't get me wrong, Vortex does a good job of making replicas of more expensive optics. IE the Vipers is a Leupold copy, the Strikefire is an aimpoint copy etc. You'll be happy with whatever you choose, I just personally think Vortex is SO GOOD at marketing and giving free shwag that people tend to give them a little bit more credit than is due to a new company with nothing original. Sort of like Magpul, in some ways. Either way, for long range shooting (beyond 500 yards) I prefer Mil. Hunting scopes I like MOA. I had my XTR II out to 1100 on Saturday with my M1A. I gotta say, I also LOVE my old Nikon Prostaff. That thing has taken abuse on several different rifles and has NEVER lost zero or given me one minute of trouble. Nikon does a great job.

Pinecone · Jun 14, 2016

redsandman6 said:
I know they are not metric I was trying to relate it to the same relationship that sae vs metric or inches vs centimeters or liters vs cubic inches have. It's a unit of measurement. They both measure the same thing but do it in different ways.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

I was just commenting on what you posted:

but it just comes down to weather your a standard or metric guy

redsandman6 · Jun 14, 2016

Pinecone said:
I was just commenting on what you posted:

I know I didn't really say enough to get the point i was trying to make across.

Pinecone · Jun 17, 2016

It happens.

But there are a LOT of people who believe mils are metric.

BigSteve57 · Jun 17, 2016

shocker998md said:
what leupold is out there that's close to the same features? I'm wanting to go with vortex or leupold because they give a very good military discount. So I can get a solid scope for ALOT less then a nightforce.

I've been shopping for a scope for my .308's and (I think) with Leupold you have to get their M5 designation to get the reticle and turrets to match units - mil to mil. I have a Leupold 1.25-4x VX-R patrol that has MOA adjustments and mils for the reticle which is fine if all you want to do is zero it once and use the reticle for holding over at greater distances or for range estimation.

But for my .308's I think I may want to actually use the turrets (with a zero stop) so I really really really want the units on the reticle and the turret to match.

Leupold will (again I think) make custom turrets printed in mils that go on a scope that adjusts in MOA.

But the Leupold M5 scopes, which btw are first focal plane, aren't cheap by any means. Cost-wise I found the M5's comparable in price to a Nightforce with the same features.

I found the whole Leupold M1, M2, M3 M5 lingo a bit confusing so perhaps someone can correct me if I'm mistaken

axshon · Jun 17, 2016

I've got 2 FFP PST's. A 2.5-10 MOA and a 6-24 MIL. What I really want to shoot is PRS matches which generally have targets that are ~1 MOA. At that size it makes no difference. It seems that in PRS most folks in PRS call adjustments in MIL's so it makes sense there.

Now when I went to a 600 yard f-class match it seemed like everyone was shooting MOA. One guy told me that at 600 yards with a MIL-based scope and zero wind he would hit on the left side of the X, adjust right .1 MIL and then hit on the right side of the X. The X-ring is 3 inches on the 600 yard target so roughly 1/2 MOA. Some target scopes adjust in 1/8" MOA increments which is what you really want for that kind of shooting. I don't know if Vortex has anything in that increment.

MOA is nice because at shorter distances its pretty easy to say it's 1 inch for every hundred yards.

traveller · Jul 13, 2016

Pinecone said:
It happens.

But there are a LOT of people who believe mils are metric.

Radian is the derived SI unit for angles. Yes, radian and miliradian are metric units.

MOA vs MRAD

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