Windowed mags vs. non-windowed

RuralRifleGuy said:

It’s also good if you have 300BLK PMAGs in addition to 5.56 ones. The 300BLK ones don’t have a windowed variety so if you buy them and then only buy windowed ones for 5.56 you can easily tell the difference. Sure you could get FDE mags for 5.56 but some people prefer the black magazines.

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I went the other way. Window for 300BO and non-window for 5.56. Other than being labeled 300BO, are those mags any different from the ones labeled 5.56?

I ended up busting one of the feed lips on my pmag (it was empty and it dropped freely from the gun hitting the dirt). I ended up getting a few metal mags just in case. This is the only problem I’ve ever had with a pmag.

2nd=Good+Substantial said:

I went the other way. Window for 300BO and non-window for 5.56. Other than being labeled 300BO, are those mags any different from the ones labeled 5.56?

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I think the feed lips are slightly different. I’ve had nothing but problems with trying to run 300 out of 5.56 marked PMAGs. It’s possible the specific ammo I’ve been using is causing the problem. I’ve been using S&B ammo but bought some Fiocchi that I have yet to shoot. I’ll have to take along a 5.56 PMAG to try it in. I really want 5.56 PMAGs to work with it because Cabelas usually only has one or two 300 mags in the entire store but tons of the 5.56 ones.

spoon059 said:

GI mags aren't meant to be long term. They are a disposable item in a war zone.

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No, they were meant to be reused. That is why ammo comes on stripper clips with a loading spoon. To reload the mags.

The Garand clips were disposable.

Silverlax said:

I ended up busting one of the feed lips on my pmag (it was empty and it dropped freely from the gun hitting the dirt). I ended up getting a few metal mags just in case. This is the only problem I’ve ever had with a pmag.

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Drop a metal mag that way and see what happens.

Feed lips get bent and the mag will not feed. Yes, you can fix it, if you have the tool to reshape the feed lips, but either way, you are out that mag, at least for a while.

Pinecone said:

Hmm, MILLIONS of MagPul mags sold and used. Many to combat troops.

Where are all the complaints and issues?

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Give it time... I am not the US military with unlimited disposable income. I need my purchases to last the balance of my life which could be 50 years or more. Go back and look at how Mac mags Zytel mags were the future and today they are basically worthless and a proper metal mag has been made to replace it. Sure modern plastic may extend life a bit more than 1970s plastic but they will not last like metal mags...

erwos said:

Disclaimer: when I reference polymer mags in this comparison, I mean pmags and Lancers. If you buy like... promags or ETS magazines, you've got what's coming to you.

I disagree with this as a blanket statement.

Second, I disagree on the reliability front. Metal mags go down SO easily. You dent the body in one - which is not that hard if you step on it - and they stop working correctly and are difficult to recover without very specific tools. pmags and Lancers do not suffer from this problem, which is why they are so much more reliable in real world use.

Finally, good metal mags are VERY specific. You named Okay Industries, which is good. So is Brownells. Everyone else tends to be suspect. I watched a dude in a carbine class next to me running metal mags - unusual! - and he had constant problems with them feeding correctly....

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I thought it interesting that you start disclaimer saying that not all plastic mags are good and your final point on metal mags is not all are good. I would agree. OEM metal mags work the best! Crap mags, metal or plastic are junk! No doubt!

Sure, I can grant that the Pmags can't bend. It breaks or its usually ok with the exception of the feed lips. However none can be fixed... So for our use, not in combat were they are near completely disposable. I would rather have the option of working a dent out a few more times then losing an entire mag. Second, the feedlips do chip and wear so its not all together clear when their life span is up. There is an argument here in this disposable world, that you should just plan on buying new ones... UNLESS you can't... Should a law ever stop the sale of mags (looks like we will loose one state to the south to buy them) metal mags start looking a LOT better! pmags are not cheaper! I bought new Colt 30rd at $12 each... So as long as time is on your side, I would agree the pmags may have slight advantages at points. However give all plastics time, especially when used in critical areas, like feedlips (not forearms) and you will see them fail. Sure modern plastics may be better... However as someone who shoots 100+ year old MGs... I am sure glad they did not use plastics! However with the price being a non-factor, I will continue to suggest the mags that will last and ammo can be stored in. An empty pmag is not better than the metal mag that sits loaded if you need a mag fast.

spoon059 said:

GI mags aren't meant to be long term. They are a disposable item in a war zone. Magpul is much higher quality than my Colt issued tin mags. Why do you think so many troops have purchased magpul instead of using the free GI mags?

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I think I covered that above. They might have a slight edge to those not thinking of tomorrow. I am thinking 50 year out when I buy...

Pinecone said:

Drop a metal mag that way and see what happens.

Feed lips get bent and the mag will not feed. Yes, you can fix it, if you have the tool to reshape the feed lips, but either way, you are out that mag, at least for a while.

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Better a while rather then forever. We have seen plenty of plastic mags chip or break... No fixing them. Metal can be welded, reshaped, reformed, tweaked...

So in the end, I am fine standing in the minority on the correct side of this issue. However don't come complaining when those pmags give out and you are SOL. I might have to adjust a few of mine from time to time but they will still be running long after those pmags are recycled into Ken Dolls. I will stand with limiting plastic in my collection within reason and where possible.

For the record I do own a half dozen or so pmags. They are not horrible. I also own a Beta mag.... I can sure see the use on the Beta mag...I think I will need a new mag well insert part soon and they will not ship to MD. I sure wish it had been made out of steel!

The military is switching to PMags. The Marines did a couple of years ago and the Army announced earlier this year they will be as well. Testing must have shown they were superior.

TheOriginalMexicanBob said:

The military is switching to PMags. The Marines did a couple of years ago and the Army announced earlier this year they will be as well. Testing must have shown they were superior.

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Following military logic does not always result in superior produces, but you point is understood. Its the age of limitless budgets... if I had $718 Billion to spend next year, I might not worry either. Might as well get them preloaded and just toss them when you are done... I was just reading that the Military is paying $10 each per pmag (which sounds high to me) so its about 70 million to replace Army guns with 7 mags each (about a million guns).

I would bet most of us live to see the pmags replaced with something else.

That all said, I like I said, I don't mind being in the minority on this issue. I get and give crap about my opinion on magpul all the time at the gun range!

I wasn't taking a stand on whether metal or plastic is better...just saying the military is switching to PMags. I have numerous examples of each...any that don't function as they're supposed to goes. I will say my metal mags are all either Colt supplied with the rifle or GI mags of various government contractors...Colt, AdventureLine, Cooper Industries, Okay Industries. I have Brownell mags for the Colt AR 9mm...outstanding quality. As long as they work it's ok by me. The only polymer mags I have are from Magpul. I've had others over time and found them problematic in some fashion...so they're gone.

As to the point of military logic...well taken. I was a federal LEO and saw government procurement up close...doesn't have to be sensible. In many, if not most cases, everything the government buys is the same brand...low bid.

Back a while ago, guys in the sandbox were BUYING Pmags with their own money.

And since military enlisted are paid so much, they must have been throwing them away.

Polymers have evolved significantly since the 70s, like many things.

P-mags have been around for 12 years now. Steyr AUG has used polymer mags for over 30 years now.

Your choice, but I am happy with my P-mags.

As for 50 year life, mags, while not disposable, are not lifetime purchases.

The only issue I've ever had with an AR magazine was the 3 metal STANAG ones I bought from Brownells which were supposed to be "superior". I tried filing the feed lips, tweaking them, still got double feeds, failure to feed, etc. Magpul mags have been 100% reliable in all my ARs and they are the only mag I trust. Whether you want the window or not doesn't make any difference. It'll work. I don't check my mags anyway, when it's empty I load a new mag. I'm not in a battle zone so I can't comment on how it is in the field under fire. I guess you could save a second by looking at the window vs. dropping the mag to check.

I have both windowed and non. I just get whatever is cheapest. I also have a decent supply of metal mags that I just function tested, cleaned and packed away.

Buy lots buy often and stack them deep.

Real men use premium quality steel H&K mags. And when you get rid of your girly plastic mags for being too limp wristed, please PM me for pickup. I will dispose of them properly.

Mags I use for work:

Gen 2/3 pmags. They either work 100% reliably or they are cracked and non-functional so you know not to use them anymore. Windowed or non windowed are both great. I can't say I've had deformation issues that some YouTubers talk about, but these mags are not used for long term storage.

Aluminum mags with improved followers and internals. I think Okay surefeed are the best ones but the ol white box GI ones are fine too. I tend to use these for range magazines since they will deform and cause malfunctions instead of breaking outright like pmags, but if I ran out of pmags I would put them in my kit.

Mags I don't use for work:

Lancer. They don't lock into our work rifles. We are switching rifles soon, so maybe they will work with the new ones. Either way they have the same downside as aluminum mags in that the feed lips bend and induce malfunctions instead of giving me the clear "stop using me" indicator of breaking completely like pmags. They look super nice though, so I still own some personally, and would put them in my kit if they actually functioned with my work rifle.

Generic plastic/aluminum/steel mags. They are probably fine-ish too but that's not what work buys so that's not what I use. Hexmags seem pretty terrible. I don't think I would use those.

For personal use I own:
A large combination of everything since I am a collector and you never know what will still be working in 100 years. For home defense in an AR15 I still use pmags though. Maybe go with some aluminum or half pound steel mags too if you're doing long term storage or hilariously opinionated about plastic. Throw some Lancers in there too because they are super nice as long as they lock into your rifle and you don't bend the feed lips.

I've run lancers primarily since they are the best of both worlds. Metal feed lips to lower cracking chances while durability of a polymer body when dropped, crushed, tossed etc. Stocked up on pmags too when they go on sale and for rifle qual days. In terms of recent history-the Army tried to introduce the EPM-The "Enhanced Preformance Magazine", supposedly the best of all metal mags in 2016 despite testing/data from all other branches and themselves...they recently announced they are switching back to PMAGs as others have mentioned because of reliability (https://www.military.com/daily-news...formed-enhanced-gi-magazine-fielded-2016.html). From the article the Army sounds a bit butthurt that their own baby the EPM metal got beat out what everyone else knew before. Bottom line logic to me is that if Pmags can stand up to crayon-eating, gorilla knuckledragger Marine grunt abuse, they are good to go.. No mag is perfect, they all have their issues. Run what you want and can afford. When the end of days comes I'm sure there will be plenty of mags to go around. My 2 cents!

FWIW I got two of the ETS GLOCK 31 Rnd mags and so far so good. Just two range trips and 400+ rounds without an issue using my Glock 19 G5.

Pinecone said:

No, they were meant to be reused. That is why ammo comes on stripper clips with a loading spoon. To reload the mags.



The Garand clips were disposable.

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Reused in barracks. Outside the wire they are expendable.

niftyvt said:

I have both windowed and non. I just get whatever is cheapest.

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That was my initial thought when I read the thread title

Most of my mags are just what was cheap and reliable when i got them but sense ive been able to get a bunch of them together i always use lancers and get the bonus of metal feed lips.

According to the esteemed Delegate from VA, magazines get hot when you shoot 100s of rounds at deer, which is why sportsmen don't like them. If your magazine has a window, you can just open the window and allow heat exchange.